Test Wiki:Community portal/Archive 8

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Name change request

Good afternoon, @MacFan4000: & @Dmehus:.

I am requesting my Test Wiki username to be changed to Sav to closely reflect my personal name as Trayfel has no correlation to me.

Regards, Trayfel • ( Edits | Talk ) 13:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC).

@MacFan4000: & @Dmehus: - Can this be done, please? Trayfel • ( Edits | Talk ) 19:06, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 19:50, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Restoration of my admin rights

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Proposed amendment to Test Wiki:Bots

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No consensus and insufficient participation to form consensus. While there are sound reasons for this to be added, this seems to be a bit of putting the proverbial cart before the horse. In other words, until we have clear bot approval criteria, how do we enforce this, which is what I suspect Chrs means by this (at least in part). Dmehus (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

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Proposal

I propose that [[Template:Emergency-user-block|this]] template be added to every Bot account that is created.
This would be in line with Wikipedia's bot shutoff template. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 20:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Rationale:

• Provides Administrators & 'crats with a simple way to block a malfunctioning bot account.

Oppose

 Oppose While such templates can be helpful, I don't see a compelling need to enforce this as policy. — Chrs (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Counter-proposal

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Stewardship request (LisafBia)

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A good-faith request by LisafBia for Stewardship; however, as several participants have noted, they are not sufficiently satisified as to LisafBia's reason for requesting Stewardship and, by extension of the same token, to there not being a sufficient need. Given that the only other participant, Matttest, who asked questions but has not yet expressed a view either way, is now CheckUser blocked for abusing multiple accounts in a duplicitous manner, this is unlikely to be successful. Dmehus (talk) 22:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

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Hi, there are few stewards on the wiki, I want to help the wiki, please vote! LisafBia (talk) 12:14, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 Oppose You have not given a plausible reason for you wanting Stewardship. I believe, in my honest opinion, we do not need another Steward. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 15:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sav: There are few stewards on the wiki and I want to be able to help this wiki, I know the policies. LisafBia (talk) 17:34, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

@LisafBia: You have still not given reasoning for your request for stewardship. Saying things like "I want to be able to help this wiki, I know the policies" does not convince me you are suitable for Stewardship. I will not be changing my vote, you are not suitable for the rights in my opinion. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 06:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

 Oppose No use case was presented to my question/comment, and this wiki is not in urgent need of more stewards, who have extremely advanced permissions. The ability to help out with the wiki is already granted to sysops and bureaucrats, while being test permissions, have broad authority to take non-test action. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:31, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Comment

1.  Comment: and Question: Stewards have highly advanced permissions such as access to a user's IP and previously suppressed edits, along with the ability to suppress edits. Do you specifically need those highly advanced permissions for a particular use case? Or do you simply wish to help out? Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

   @Justarandomamerican: I would prefer to use those powers only when needed. LisafBia (talk) 10:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

2. In what situation will you use the CheckUser tools? What's the purpose of CheckUser? --Matttest (talk) 07:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
3. With the bureaucrat rights, you can already execute lpts of non-test actions. Which exact areas are you going to help out as a steward? --Matttest (talk) 07:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

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Technical question

Hello! On August 25th, I had undo the vandalism from a vandalism-only account. I deleted the user created pages with Special:Nuke. But I noticed in a CheckUser I did on myself for testing this week that at that moment the IP address changed automatically. Why did this happen? AlPaD (talk) 18:46, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

AlPaD, with apologies for the delay in responding, can you clarify what you mean by this? If you're referring to your IP address being associated to other users and system users, this is a known issue, as far as I'm aware, and occurs with some extension (can't remember the details off the top of my head at the moment). I'll try and dig up the Wikimedia Phabricator task about it. Dmehus (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

@Dmehus: Hello and welcome back! The hostname of one IP is "testwiki.wiki" and the ISP of some others is "Huawei International Pte. Ltd" and my device is Huawei. My normal IP was online from 9:48-10:06, just in between it also showed those system IPs every time I did a mass delete. AlPaD (talk) 19:59, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

AlPaD, thanks for the welcome! it's hard to know, specifically. I'm not sure if your ISP is Huawei International or not, and I suspect the CheckUser data retention on Test Wiki is only three months, so wouldn't have any way of confirming that now. I know there's an issue with importing pages whereby you import or transwiki pages from another another wiki and choose to assign edits locally where the same username exists on Test Wiki. Those imported usernames will show up associated to your IP address. Could that be the issue? Dmehus (talk) 19:03, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

@Dmehus: I believe the error is because the pages I deleted were translations (created by the vandal) and had to be deleted manually and not automatically. I don't think it's too serious but I support fixing the bug if there is one. Thanks! AlPaD (talk) 18:06, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Can't log in to Phorge even with exactly the same password that I use there?

...see topic name. I tried it like 3 times, but it failed. I wanted to request merging of autopatrol and autoreview user groups. — Cruster 19:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

• @MacFan4000: — Cruster 19:37, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

You have to use the button that says sign in with mediawiki. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 22:37, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Stewardship request (Tm8150switch88)

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No consensus along with the requester being blocked from the Wiki. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 09:55, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

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Nomination

I want to access advanced tools on The Test Wiki and to protect pages that allow only stewards, please vote. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 16:35, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Votes

Oppose

1.  Oppose I don't see an actual need for the tools. — Cruster 09:28, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
2.  Oppose As Cruster, Drummingman (talk) 10:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
3.  Oppose As Cruster and Drummingman. You could be a steward in a month or two. Example (talk) 17:21, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
4.  Oppose You are nowhere near active enough nor trusted enough to be granted such permissions. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 09:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Result

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User rights amendment

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No consensus and insufficient participation, along with the OC being blocked from the Wiki. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 09:52, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

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Proposal

@MacFan4000: See if you could add extended confirmed to the wiki. They are automatically given to users at least 30 days and 500 edits. They could revoke or be given, even if it's less than 30 days and/or less than 500 edits. Revoking the extended confirmed status by the abuse filter action is given to abuse filters as well. Extended confirmed users could be able to edit pages with extended confirmed (or 30/500) protection. Administrators can also edit those pages, even those that are not have reached 30 days and 500 edits. They could be given by any administrator. If you have questions, leave it to my talk page. Thank you! Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 16:40, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

See if you also could add template editor user right to the wiki. They are given to users per requests, but also be revoked. They are able to make pages that are template-protected. They could be given by any administrator. If you have questions, leave it to my talk page. Thank you! Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 13:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

See if you also could add edit filter managers and edit filter helpers to the wiki. They could be given or revoked even to someone that are not admins. Edit filter helpers could help edit filter managers (but not to edit filter managers, a) (they could look at the spamlist log, b) (they could look at private filters, c) while edit filter managers could edit filters (and all edit filter managers are given edit filter helpers rights, d). They could be given by any administrator. If you have questions, leave it to my talk page. Thank you! Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 13:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

See if you also could add the founder to the wiki. Those could edit all user rights, lock and unblock the database, and OAuth CAPTCHA pass. They are only given to system administrator and should not be added to anyone except the legitimate account MacFan4000. If you have questions, leave it to my talk page. Thank you! Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 13:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

See if you also could add test accounts to the wiki so they are used for testing purposes. They could be given by any administrator. If you have questions, leave it to my talk page. Thank you! Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 13:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

I don't know why would this will ever be used on the test wiki, most "articles" on here are for tests only Lolkikmoddi (talk)

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question

what is "push subscription manager" group, thats all i have Lolkikmoddi (talk)

I checked your user groups and nothing of the sort appears there. Can you elaborate? Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 16:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

@Lolkikmoddi: Information about that group is here. Example (talk) 16:58, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Whoever was using the Example account to reply to this question, please refrain from doing so. The Example account is only for testing, not replying to users / editing pages. Know this for next time. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 07:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Seiyena is making appeal

At User talk:Piccadilly#Block_Appeal. For your information.--Q8j (talk) 04:30, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Mac has stated that they are not going to be unblocked anytime soon. Stewards & 'crats, please disregard any future appeal requests until @MacFan4000: says they are allowed to. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 13:48, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

User:Melty Molten

They appealed their block in January 2023. Seeing as it has not been responded to, I am informing people here of it. Administrator (talk) 19:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Having read the above post, I have declined the appeal and removed talk page access. Administrator (talk) 17:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Rename request for Administrator

Stewards, Please rename me to X.

Thanks,

Administrator (talk) 14:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Apologies for the delay, been busy with other stuff. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 00:36, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! X (talk) 00:53, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Template:User administrator

Hello! In this template the image is not displayed, I tried to fix it via Module:TNT but I don't understood what I need to change. Could you see it please? Thanks! AlPaD (talk) 07:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

This has now been fixed. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 00:52, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Extension request

Please install ReplaceText. Username (talk) 01:29, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Drummingman for stewardship

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With no one notionally opposed to Drummingman's election, and the only concern having been raised been related to activity levels, there is clear consensus to promote Drummingman to Steward. On the activity note, while MacFan4000's and my own activity levels is, admittedly, low, we've empowered trusted bureaucrats to functionally assist Stewards in non-test administrative actions and enforcement of our few policies, so there is a lower level need for high activity. As well, Drummingman's current activity levels, together with my commitment to remain active at least biweekly if not weekly [rfc:2119 should] help to maintain sufficient Steward coverage. On behalf of the Steward team, as well as the Test Wiki community, congratulations! Dmehus (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

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I notice that the stewards of this wiki are busy in real life. Steward requests like 'usernames renames' have to wait a long time. I think that is why there is a need for a third steward. Meanwhile, I became an admin on nlwiki a big Wikipedia site six months ago and gained quite a bit of experience there. I have experience with revdel requests and already know well when suppression is appropriate. As for checkuser, I have little experience with it - testing with it is also not really possible because of privacy. I would use it only when it is really necessary; think of situations like this. I would like to help the stewards manage the site and help where needed. Furthermore, I hope for your trust? Greetings Drummingman (talk) 16:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Support

• He meets all the requirements to be a Steward. It is also active and reliable. LisafBia (talk) 17:30, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• completely supported for this request. Antonius6317nlwiki (talk) 10:37, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• Trusted and experienced user, Drummingman can help as steward. AlPaD (talk) 17:21, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
• Why not? Trusted and helpful. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
• Procedurally, just to make sure it's valid. But it feels uncomfortable to vote for yourself. Drummingman (talk) 16:02, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

  I agree, but it appears people have done it in the past, looking through archives. X (talk) 16:05, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

• Neutral. I agree that there is a high need and that you are definitely a qualified candidate, but I don't think you're active enough. For example, you haven't granted a permissions request in ~3 months and you have only 45 edits in the past 3 months. X (talk) 19:51, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

  Dear, X as for granted permissions, you are right that I haven't done that often in the past 3 months, mostly you were ahead of me:) consider that a compliment. Drummingman (talk) 20:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

  I understand, but I would still like a steward to be a bit more active. I am definitely not opposing your request, I actually hope it succeeds, I just prefer to be neutral for now. X (talk) 20:51, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for your opinion and volunteering. 45 edits in 3 months on this small test wiki is still quite a lot, most users, especially bureaucrats and stewards don't make it. :-) For the rest, you are always free to make your own considerations. Greeting, Drummingman (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

  I disagree. I would consider myself semi-active on this wiki and I have over 300 edits in the past 3 months. I wish you luck in your request for stewardship. X (talk) 23:24, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Questions

1. How will you treat people when you are elected as Steward?

R: Thank you for your questions. I will treat people as kindly and politely as I have so far. And offer any explanation and help if they ask. Until proven otherwise, I will assume [good faith] as much as possible. Because Test Wiki is, after all, a test wiki, for administrators tools. Drummingman (talk) 18:34, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

2. What information do you think you should hide when you use supressor powers? LisafBia (talk) 17:49, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

R: I will only use it in situations such as, removing personal information, copyright infringement, serious personal attacks or other grossly offensive material, as also indicated here. Furthermore, I will use my common sense and handle it carefully. Drummingman (talk) 18:34, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

3. Do you hold any non-test rights on any other wikis? X (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

R: Dear X, I am an administrator on the Dutch Wikipedia. In addition, I have several other (global) rights on Wikimedia. Drummingman (talk) 18:27, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

4. Do you think Seyiena should be unblocked? (See below thread) and why?

R: Seiyena is a difficult case, she has caused quite a bit of disruption cross-wiki, besides, she has already had many opportunities on this Test Wiki. I am taking a neutral stance on it. Should it be decided that she may be unblocked, this does seem to me to be the very last chance. Anyway, I think one of the current stewards should make the decision, since Dmehus already gave her a chance. To which it can be said that he only opened the talk page for her. Then later I closed it for abuse. Drummingman (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Result

• Promoted to Steward. Dmehus (talk) 16:44, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

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Potential Rename for Me

Hi, I would like to change my name here to Piccadilly, as I hope to change my Miraheze name to that in the future. Dmehus is willing to do it if two or three people are in support of the change. If you have any arguments to either support or oppose my potential name change, feel free to post them at https://testwiki.wiki/wiki/User_talk:Piccadilly#Rename_Request. Thanks! Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 00:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

I  Oppose a rename here. We have specific restrictions on your ability to edit and request rights, so renaming would cause a lot of confusion. X (talk) 00:41, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

"Grace Period"

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Greetings,

I hope this message finds you well. I wanted to draw your attention to an ongoing discussion on the User talk:Euphoria page regarding the Inactivity Policy. The conversation involves myself, @X:, @Justarandomamerican:, and @AlPaD:.

It appears that both "X" and "Justarandomamerican" hold the view that a "grace period" exists within the Test Wiki's process for removing permissions. However, it is important to note that no such provision is mentioned in the policy itself.

I have noticed numerous instances where "X" has repeatedly removed rights without following the established procedure, prompting my intervention to revert those actions.

I kindly request the community to provide their opinions on this matter, as I firmly believe that our actions should align with the guidelines outlined in the policy, rather than making assumptions based on its omissions.

Thank you for your attention and cooperation.

Best regards, Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 18:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Obviously, I  Support the ability for bureaucrats to use grace periods to remove rights for a number of reasons.

1. It notifies the user of their inactivity through email and allows them to regain their rights sooner, almost like a reminder if they forgot about the wiki.
2. It allows inactive users to quickly regain their rights if they come back. Bureaucrat can just assign them back permanently and admins can just request it be made indefinite.
3. If they don’t return to activity, it is a convenient way to remove rights, and the outcome is the same. The rights are removed on the same day.

X (talk) 18:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Whilst I  Support grace periods as a common sense measure, I do not understand what causes the absolute letter of policy, rather than the spirit, to be followed. The inactivity policy provides for removal of rights from inactive users. That is it. It does not explicitly disallow grace periods. Disallowing administration in the absence of policy by wheel warring is, more or less, making this wiki appear to be a bureaucracy when it is not. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

You both need to follow the policy, same as anyone else. Nobody has has decided that a "grace period" is necessary, so why should you? Even so, before making decisions like that, a vote should be made here, on the community portal. I'll be expecting a response from @Dmehus: to confirm my reports. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 18:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Please explain to me how we are violating policy. You have said that we are, so explain it. What policy am I violating by setting grace periods? The policy states that a users rights will be removed after 3 months of no edits/logged actions, and that is what I am doing. X (talk) 19:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican:, Expanding on your assertion regarding the absence of an explicit prohibition of grace periods, it is worth noting that there is also no explicit endorsement. Consequently, one must question the justification for unilaterally modifying the policy at will. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 18:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Does policy state that I can login? Does policy state that I can edit? Does policy state that I can breathe? No, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. X (talk) 19:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Again, this wiki is not a bureaucracy where rules providing for something must be made, and rules providing for something disallow all other handling of a situation, so administration in the absence of policy is allowed. We are not modifying rules, merely maintaining this wiki in the absence of them. The spirit of the Inactivity Policy does not disallow grace periods, in consequence. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Again, you are modifying the rules by doing whatever you see fit. Clearly, we are at a crossroads and so, I'll leave this to Dmehus and/or @Drummingman: to decide. 18:59, 27 May 2023 (UTC) – Preceding unsigned comment added by Sav (talk • contribs)

What rules are being modified? Policy states to remove rights after 3 months of not actions or edits. We have not altered this in anyway. X (talk) 19:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

As I said above, I am not in favor of an "already lengthwise truncated user rights" where admin/crat rights are already truncated. I find that impolite and not inviting to test here. But giving a warning on the users' own talk page about 2 weeks in advance, "beware you are approaching the activity criteria", is sufficient as far as I am concerned. But what I find worse is wheel warfare with each other. I urge the users involved not to overrule each other and look for consensus. If you still can't come to a consensus, ask the stewards to get involved, and then do nothing until the steward has made a decision. Keep your head cool and let's keep it nice with each other. Greetings, Drummingman (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, @Drummingman:. To put simply, that means no grace period, correct? We are okay to issue a friendly warning stating "You are approaching the activity criteria" yes? Regards. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 19:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, this is a community discussion, and a Steward's decision is not final, as this wiki's decision making mechanism is not autocracy. We should continue to discuss this matter. I disagree as to it being unfriendly: How is it unfriendly when they are immediately notified by email and have a chance to request the rights be made permanent? Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:44, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Stewards don’t hold seniority in discussions. This is a community discussion. I also agree with Justa that it isn’t unfriendly. X (talk) 19:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Regardless if you don't like the decision, Drummingman has given the answer and until Mac or Dmehus gives their input, we should follow what Drummingman stated. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 19:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Elected Stewards have no say in community discussion besides what all other members of the community have, and their decisions are merely temporary dispute resolution. We shall continue to discuss this. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

What I would like to add here is that this is my own opinion, not a direct "steward decision" but a user who is also a steward. I have not talked to the other stewards about this yet. Moreover, I also think it is important to hear your opinions on this. So, this is not a final decision yet. Drummingman (talk) 19:54, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting my assumption that you were acting under the color of your authority to resolve disputes. That was a wrong assumption. Thank you again, Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome. @X:. I really hope you stay active. Your work has been good so far. Don't let this discourage you. Drummingman (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I won’t. I just really hate conflict. I think that grace periods should just be optional. You can do them if you want, but you don’t have to use them either. This is a good compromise. X (talk) 20:24, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@X: That sounds good. I don't like conflict, either :-). What is most important to me is to respect each other's authority and not start a wheel war over this. I look forward to your opinions, feel free to add anything? Drummingman (talk) 20:54, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree. This isn’t really that important, and to wheel war about it was admittedly futile. I don’t think I have much more to add besides grace periods are an optional part of bureaucrat revoking rights. You can close this, if you wish. X (talk) 21:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose I believe that inactive users should be notified 1-2 weeks before their rights are removed but their rights should not be temporary, they should be removed completely after 3 months. AlPaD (talk) 06:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
•  Comment: I support Drummingman‘s opinion. Anyone can(≠must) give inactive user warning like ‘Your rights will be removed in 2 weeks unless’…, and it’s more kind.
• Regarding ‘Grace period’, I’m not inclined to support this. because
  • If you set an inactive user's rights to expire and then they or requested crats revert them, they'll end up with two user rights logs. I don't like unnecessarily increasing logs and complicating records, except in cases where it can't be helped, such as adding a test group or adding a Bot flag instead of a Flood flag. As per Drummingman's opinion, if you give advance notice and the user edits in the meantime, there is no need to remove the rights, so there is no need for logs.
  • If it is chosen to set the expiration date of the rights instead of the permission removal notice on the talk page, the user must extend the rights himself or ask bureaucrats to do so. Whether or not it is a big deal depends on the person, but the only thing that is required in order not to be removed by Inactive Policy is 'edits or logged actions'. If you use the method of setting a expiry on the rights, for example, a user who only edits one week after the expiry is set will have the rights removed one week later. Is this in line with the spirit of the 'Inactive Policy'? (It is a different story if the user who set the expiry is responsible for confirming that it will not happen.)--Q8j (talk) 09:43, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
• I am honestly fine with having a grace period - it seems perfectly reasonable. That being said I do see that there is "edit warring" (with user rights) related to this. This needs to stop. Things should have been discussed further here instead of continuing to edit war. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 14:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

  I am inclined to agree with you: Further wheel warring should be sanctioned. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:37, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

  I am happy to compromise and agree that an inactive user warning could be issued, but not a "grace period" as Justarandomamerican suggested; it just complicates the matter as Q8j stated. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 03:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  Expanding upon my previous statement, I would support the inclusion of a grace period. However, I suggest implementing a courtesy warning prior to initiating the grace period. This would allow users to be notified in advance. If no edits are made within 48 hours following the warning, the grace period may be implemented. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 05:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  I would be fine with that, but I think 24hrs would be more appropriate. X (talk) 10:38, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  24hrs is fine with me. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 21:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

  I also agree with you. AlPaD (talk) 05:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

  I also now agree to allow a non-mandatory grace period. And also to wait at least 24 hours before it takes effect. Drummingman (talk) 11:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

  I suggest that bureaucrats wait a 24-hour grace period before removing permissions, with exceptional cases. This discussion is to be closed as soon as possible. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:40, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Account rename

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@MacFan4000:, could you rename my account to "Summer"? Thanks! Summer ^talk 12:39, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 17:45, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Closed as the discussion has not been active for more than 3 weeks. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Requests for stewardship X

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Closed as per the withdrawal in the "Result" section by the candidate. Whilst I have voted, this is unambiguous, see the withdrawal. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

Dear, community, I would hereby like to nominate user X as Steward.

It has now been a little over a month since X applied for Steward. Meanwhile, I see that X has developed positively and is very active. I think X could help the steward team with Test Wiki maintenance, so that an active steward is available more often to help this wiki. For example, to close community discussions that are still open. I hope you will join me in supporting X. Drummingman (talk) 14:33, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

User X, please indicate here whether you accept the nomination?

Yes, I accept the nomination and sincerely thank Drummingman for his kind words. If a steward thinks I can assist the steward team, then I am up for it. :) X (talk) 14:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Support

•  Support as candidate. I'm very active here and want to help out the current steward team. Ive performed most of the permissions requests since I joined the wiki, and Drummingman thinks I can help as a steward. X (talk) 14:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Struck as you cannot !vote for yourself. Zippybonzo (talk) 05:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Unstruck. A steward will decide that when closing. There is no policy saying you cannot. X (talk) 11:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

No, but it's obvious, your support is automatically counted, it's common sense that you shouldn't vote for yourself, I'm going to strike it again as it's good practise to not vote for yourself. Zippybonzo (talk) 15:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

As it is not forbidden by policy, you should go to the talk page for consensus instead of redoing your edit. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

And in addition, it appears that in the past users have voted for themselves, most recently @Drummingman in his successful RFS. X (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Deleting pages randomly isn't forbidden, but frowned upon, you started the edit war by reinstating a reversed edit. Zippybonzo (talk) 17:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

We both know that unstriking votes and randomly deleting pages are 2 very different things. X (talk) 19:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

No, my point is it doesn't say explicitly it's forbidden, but you get disciplined for it. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Why not? I also think X can be trusted with the rights and responsibilities of a Steward. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

  Move to oppose due to concerns I have. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support - As the nominator. Drummingman (talk) 14:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

  Moved to Neutral, Drummingman (talk) 19:15, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Has done a good job on For-Test and is trustworthy Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 14:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Trusted user, thank you for your help! AlPaD (talk) 15:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
• Heavy  Support. Trusted user, incredibly helpful and can be trusted with the rights. Good luck!Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 02:01, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

* Support why not? Zippybonzo (talk) 05:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• Zippybonzo, I'm confused as to whether you are supporting or opposing here, given you've moved back and forth between support and oppose, and your argument on record still suggests an oppose. Can you please clarify this? Dmehus (talk) 16:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Per the diff I’ve linked on your talk, Zippy has supported and struck their oppose vote. Please revert your unstrike. X (talk) 16:09, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I can see that, but I'll decline to unstrike it for the time being, given that I've asked Zippybonzo to clarify already whether they are supporting or opposing currently and why, given their current argument on record suggests the latter. They may also wish to consider subsequent comments from users, given how they have gone back and forth. Finally, with so many users striking and unstriking comments here, I think it's best to leave it to them. Dmehus (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  You can’t just unstrike comments because that drastically affects the vote. And just because they might want to concierge other arguments isn’t a correct reason either; they will do that on their own accord. X (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• Moved to oppose. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Cocopuff2018 (talk) 21:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
•  Support. X is very active, very constructive, very helpful, and have satisfactory edits, and is an admin and a bureaucrat. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

•  Oppose I don't think we need a new steward. LisafBia (talk) 06:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

  Hello @LisafBia! Thanks for commenting on my stewardship request. I completely agree with the point you make. We don’t really NEED a new steward currently, but in my opinion, it would be very helpful. And considering that one of the stewards, @Drummingman, agrees with the need for another steward, it’s probably best to elect one. I’m not attempting to sway your opinion, just provide you with another point of view you might not have considered. Thanks for reading my long comment, sometimes I don’t know how to be less verbose. :) X (talk) 11:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose per LisafBia, and on other wikis, they have inadvertently leaked IP addresses when blocking users and the underlying IPs. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

This is simply untrue. I didn’t “inadvertently leak” IPs. I blocked the IPs of blocked users after a steward discussion. @Justarandomamerican: can tell you that he agreed with the actions, I was just the one who performed them. And with our updated privacy policy to exempt socks, the actions are policy supported too. In addition, our community just reviewed the actions and thought they were appropriate. You were the only one who disagreed. I can definitely see how it would come off that way, but this was a carefully discussed action that the stewards thought needed to be taken. X (talk) 11:11, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but IPs were still released, whether it was permitted or not is a different question, and I'm leaving my vote as is, and we don't need a new steward in any case. Zippybonzo (talk) 13:18, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The argument that IPs that were released on another wiki after discussion to block them in order to prevent disruption doesn't seem to be taking the circumstances here into consideration. This is a wiki that permits Stewards to go beyond just releasing IPs to block them. It's fine if you oppose based on need, that's okay. But using the argument explained above as a secondary argument still doesn't make it a good argument. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose possibly strong for multiple reasons. For one thing, as LisafBia has indicated above, with Drummingman's recent election to Steward, they are quite active here. Combined with my own resumption of being semi-active here, as well as MacFan4000, I feel there isn't a sufficient need for an additional Steward. Secondly, I am not comfortable granting restricted permissions to someone I don't know, at least not without some on-wiki confirmation that they've held restricted tools on a Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom, or other major wiki or wiki farm. For Test Wiki is a recent launch, initiated as a protest wiki by one user who took issue with the way Public Test Wiki and/or Test Wiki are run. I do not consider holding restricted permissions on For Test Wiki to be sufficient demonstration that the user can be trusted. As well, I also see user conduct issues. While I do see some edit warring on Zippybonzo's part, I also see edit warring on X's part, including striking other users' votes. That should be left to other users to do; it's just not a good look, especially in one's own permission request. Even if it was justified, it's a potential conflict of interest. More problematic, though, it makes it difficult for other Stewards and community members to fully and easily assess the edits in editorial disputes. Additionally, in X's last Stewardship request, there was strong opposition to the request, to submit to or agree to another nomination so soon, disregards the community consensus formed in that discussion—a closure which was pre-empted by X's closing the request as withdrawn, which, too, is problematic from that perspective. Finally, I also have issues with the user's recent handling of Seiyena, proceeding directly to a longer term block and interfering with Justarandomamerican's handling of the situation, which included firm warnings. This makes me question their potential judgment as a Steward. Finally, their reaching out to me privately to request closure, for the sake of closing the discussion, which was barely opened four days ago also troubles me. I don't know whether X used Special:EmailUser to reach out to MacFan4000 as well, but I do know they reached out to Drummingman to close, and Drummingman closing as nominator would indeed by a highly involved, problematic closure, so I'm glad he declined that. Dmehus (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I cannot see striking of other users' votes, can you please provide a diff? Thank you. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  He may be referring to when I added an end strike when ZippyBonzo forgot to, although that was definitely a correct action. X (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Justarandomamerican, yes, I believe I linked to it in an edit summary, no? I believe it may be the one X refers to. Whether it was a correct strike if Zippybonzo had withdrawn their !vote, they are also capable of fixing it themselves or, should they not be sufficiently active, letting an unconflicted user fix it. That's still problematic. Dmehus (talk) 16:24, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Helping out another user is problematic? I was just trying to help. X (talk) 16:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  In your own permissions request. That's conflicted. You [rfc:2119 should] have left it to another user to fix. Dmehus (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Okay. But I would also like to point out that undo-ing a strike that supports what you think is also very conflicted and problematic. X (talk) 16:30, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not too sure how adding an end-strike to a !vote amendment which resulted in the !voting user striking an entire part of discussion out is inherently problematic. It is a mere technical fix which should be uncontroversial. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:31, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I directly recall asking X to do it on my behalf off-wiki. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  I’m still trying to comprehend your entire reasoning, but I wanted to point out that @Drummingman was the one who asked me to email you requesting closure. He can confirm this. X (talk) 16:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I don't know about that; all I do know is you e-mailed me. I'm sure Drummingman would have e-mailed me, as he has e-mailed me in the past with respect to other matters, if he felt closure was needed. Perhaps there could be a more justifiable case in the case of a permission request being outstanding for two or three weeks, but 3-4 days? That's quite quick, in my view. Dmehus (talk) 16:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose: I believe that this candidate having Steward rights may cause even further problems when they intervene in disputes. I have concerns about their independent judgment on second thought, due to working with them elsewhere. It appears they may not be able to make proper decisions independently. This !vote will likely be amended as I do further research. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose: I'm going to add a fresh oppose as I'm fed up of striking and unstriking, but whilst I believe X is competent, I would like to see them holding advanced permissions somewhere like Wikimedia. I also find their conduct in this discussion to be confusing/concerning. The rest of my oppose !vote is summed up by Justarandomamerican and Dmehus. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

• Neutral. X is very active, very constructive, very helpful, and have satisfactory edits, and is an admin and a bureaucrat, despite some features he need to work on. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Could you specify how you think I can improve? Thanks! X (talk) 17:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  CheckUser and Suppressor. Once you complete those 2 things, you can be steward. I'm contacting the stewards and one of the three stewards will give you both CU and Suppressor. Pinging the stewards. @Drummingman: @MacFan4000: @Dmehus: Stewards, could you promote X to CheckUser and Suppressor? Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Per established policy, these rights won't be granted to non-stewards. So basically, If you want me to hold these rights, I must first be a steward. X (talk) 18:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  OK, moved my vote to support. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:48, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• Neutral- As the nominator, I want to be Neutral. Drummingman (talk) 19:15, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Questions

Result

Withdrawn by X (talk) at 12:39, 2 July 2023 (UTC).

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User:Example

Greetings, @Drummingman: @Dmehus:.

I have a query regarding tracking and identifying individuals who have accessed a particular user account and conducted unauthorized activities, specifically acts of vandalism. Considering the recent blocks on the user in question, I believe it is important to determine the individuals responsible for such actions. Is there a feasible method to achieve this? Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 02:04, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think any action is needed at this time, considering the account hasn’t edited since March. If the account were to start vandalizing again, a CheckUser may want to take a look, but now I’m not sure it’s needed. However, it’s ultimately up to the stewards. X (talk) 02:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with X. CU also no longer makes sense because the logs are only kept for 90 days. However, I did block the account indefinitely as a Steward action because it is indeed a site risk. Drummingman (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Block proxy 159.89.228.253

Status:  Done

• 159.89.228.253 - A SOCKS4 open proxy. Port for this proxy is 38172. I am not an admin. Requested 19:57, 30 June 2023 (UTC).

Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block)

Block numberous proxies

Status:  Done

I am not an admin.

• 143.47.185.211
• 107.181.230.227
• 143.47.185.211

Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:07, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 13.81.217.201. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 51.38.191.151. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X (talk) 20:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 162.144.233.16. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:13, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X performed a range block including this, and a individual block for this proxy. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 72.195.34.59. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done performed by X. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 22:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 98.188.47.132. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 22:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Proxy bot

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Status:  Not done and withdrawn

Nomination

Hi, This is a nomination from Tailsultimatefan3891. Can any administrator have a proxy bot? It's the same, but with slight differences. Instead of blocking proxies manually, it's now automatically. It prevents proxies from further disruption and protects the wiki from disruption from proxies. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Note: Uses Special:Block to block proxies. The bot will check proxies at this link: [1]. Then will copy the selected IP and paste the selected IP at the "User/IP" section. Then it will block the proxy. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Please link the code. X (talk) 21:24, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

What does it mean? Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:45, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

A bot needs code to run… X (talk) 21:47, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Signature that belongs to the user that will own the proxy bot

Username for the proxy bot

Support

Oppose

Neutral

Comments

•  Comment: Please provide code bot will use to run. X (talk) 20:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
  • I did. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

    No you didn’t. Code is usually stored on GitHub. Providing a link to a list or proxies isn’t code. Until this is provided I’m marking as  Not done. X (talk) 21:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Result

Status as withdrawn. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Rename Request

Hello! Would it be possible for a steward to rename me to Piccadilly? Thank you! Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 21:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support as it will create consistency with other projects. X (talk) 21:41, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @MacFan4000: @Dmehus: @Drummingman: Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 15:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 17:04, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Possible sockpuppetry

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

@Drummingman: @Dmehus: @MacFan4000: Is Seiyena (Now Piccadilly) and Cocopuff2018 socks?

If CheckUser evidence said they're sockpuppetry: Revoke their rights and block them indefinitely with email and TPA access not revoked. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Cocopuff is definitely not a sock of mine. They're a seperate person. Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 21:37, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

1. REDIRECT Special:MyLanguage/Template:Not done - It is abundantly clear that those 2 are not sock puppets. Drummingman (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I was just about to say the same thing. X (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Cocopuff2018 is most definitely not a sockpuppet of Seiyena. Behaviourally, they are not even remotely similar, and Cocopuff2018 has also confirmed their Miraheze account. Dmehus (talk) 16:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah. I’m not quite sure what gave @Tailsultimatefan3891 that idea. X (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

That's an easy question to answer. Well, this discussion is to be closed. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Block proxies, users, and IPs at the link below

Block proxies, users, and IPs: User:Tailsultimatefan3891/Block users and IPs requests

Note: I am not an admin. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Change group membership for user Example

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Status:  Not done

Change from: Example user

Change to: Example user, blocked from chat

Reason: Permanently blocked by Drummingman (autoblock disabled, account creation disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) as a steward action.

Thank you. From, Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:56, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done as blocked users are automatically blocked from chat. X (talk) 18:02, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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CU Request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Hello, may a steward, perhaps Drummingman, check and see if my recent range block on 38.153.169.128/25 would affect legitimate users? Thank you! Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

What I can see is that the IP-range is an open proxy/VPN. That falls under no open proxy policy, so can just be blocked. Drummingman (talk) 12:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Justarandomamerican (talk) 12:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Preferably, it open proxies [rfc:2119 should] be soft-blocked, so no existing users are affected. :) Dmehus (talk) 05:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I would soft-block if this were a open proxy with no history of abuse, but given that the range is used for spam, I hard-blocked it. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Following that the discussion has not been active for more than 3 weeks, this discussion is to be closed as soon as possible. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:42, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Add IPBE privilege

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Moot, as said by some participants, the ipblock-exempt user right is already contained with the sysop user group, which has no prerequisites other than a confirmation edit. That being said, there could be a benefit to moving this user right from the sysop group to the bureaucrat group and/or be a separate user group grantable by bureaucrats and stewards to trusted users. It would also aid in user restriction-restricted user management, but that can be a potential discussion for much later. Dmehus (talk) 21:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

This is Tailsultimatefan3891. I'd like the wiki to have the IPBE (IP block exemption) privilege to Test Wiki. Unfortunately however, I can't do it immediately, as only system administrators can do it. The IPBE privilege can have the following right:

• Bypass IP blocks, auto-blocks and range blocks (ipblock-exempt)

Update of 18:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC): Only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks that anyone has logging to their user but not an admin.

From, Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Support

•  Support Author request. It helps non-admins in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
•  Support as some people won't be able to request rights if they have a blocked IP. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

•  Oppose as sysops already have it, so no need for a separate group. X (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
  • But only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks that anyone has logging to their user but not an admin. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
    • I can see that, but any user can become an admin, so isn't it redundant? X (talk) 18:56, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
      • Even users request to get their permission can be blocked only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks before the permission is granted. It has since existed on Wikipedia and The Test Wiki (the wiki made in 2010). It hasn't been made on this wiki yet. For this, it's partially redundant. IPBE is for non-sysops only. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk)
•  Oppose As per X's comment. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 21:18, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Just what I tell you above. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 12:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments

•  Comment: I don't know if IPBE is very useful or not. While IPBE for admins is being redundant, it's not redundant for non-admins. But IPBE isn't totally useful because with just 1 person voting  Support (that was me) 2 persons voting  Support (that was Zippybonzo and me) and also 2 persons voting  Oppose (that was Sav and X). By the way, it's unknown if it's very helpful, while leaning on not extremely useful. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Moot. A reasonable request for system administrators to consider at some point in the future. Dmehus (talk) 01:40, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

Hello, this is Tailsultimatefan3891. Miraheze and Cloudflare had put on hCaptcha already. I have my Google Sites wiki Captiolgipedia have human/robot verification being hCaptcha. reCAPTCHA is used by millions of users, can be passed by some bots, and is a good security protection. But hCaptcha is a better security protection, as it can be passed by more users and be passed by fewer bots. hCaptcha will be unknown if it is too powerful for bots (or even, users). However, only system administrators can change reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 19:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, MacFan4000 can choose a dark or light theme of hCaptcha box, and normal or compact size of hCaptcha box. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 20:23, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments

• This [rfc:2119 should not] need a full community discussion, as it's (a) a technical change and (b) quite a non-controversial one. We haven't had many issues with reCAPTCHA here, like Miraheze has/had, so it's not that urgent. I think we can let MacFan4000 decide when/if to switch to hCAPTCHA. I personally would have no objections to that change. Dmehus (talk) 20:11, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Result

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Alternate proposal: Merging CheckUser and oversight to steward

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Per consensus, steward group now has checkuser-log and supressionlog. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

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Hello community! I’d like to propose an alternative to the proposal above about merging the rights. Here’s what I’d propose:

• Stewards are granted the suppression-log, view suppressed, and CheckUser-log rights for accountability;
• The CheckUser and Suppressor groups remain existent and aren’t removed;

This would allow for accountability amongst stewards and still allow non/stewards to be granted those rights if absolutely necessary. X (talk) 15:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support - That seems like a good and better proposal, which is why I withdrew my proposal. Drummingman (talk) 15:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support AlPaD (talk) 15:28, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support as proposer. X (talk) 20:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose viewsuppressed as it poses a confidentiality risk,  Support the rest. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:14, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Could you elaborate what you mean by “confidentiality risk”? @Drummingman requested I add “view suppressed” to list via Discord, so you may want to discuss with him. X (talk) 11:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The reason I want to include view suppressed is that the logs already show a (partially) suppressed version, but to check each other properly you need view suppressed, and otherwise you have to add suppression yourself. The rest has to do with trusting the stewards to keep suppressed versions secret, which hopefully is already the case. Drummingman (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

What's wrong with adding the rights in that case? I don't view that as a significant imposition, and it aids public and community transparency. Dmehus (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think you should be able to just view suppressed revisions without the community knowing. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

 Support: per proposer. Whether non-stewards should be granted CU or SU is a question I will pose in another proposal if this one succeeds. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose per Zippybonzo. Dmehus (talk) 16:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

So would you support it without view suppressed? X (talk) 16:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes. There does seem to be unanimous consensus here to at least checkuser-log being added. Dmehus (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral - CU and SU practice for bureaucrats are optional, but I don't mind with CU and SU remain existent and not removed and steward having the CU and SU rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:47, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Possible close?

Drummingman, AlPaD, X, Zippybonzo, Justarandomamerican, and Tailsultimatefan3891, I'm involved, and though I am fairly certain there would be no objections to me closing in this way, I thought I'd {{ping}} you all here to receive your assent to this being closed as follows, as successful with checkuser-log added to the steward group and all other user groups remaining the same? Dmehus (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Drummingman (talk) 22:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree Zippybonzo (talk) 05:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. AlPaD (talk) 15:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Filed pull request. So  Partly done Zippybonzo (talk) 13:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Potential RfS candidate

Hello. I'm considering running for Stewardship sometime in the near future. I would be assisted greatly by the Steward tools, given that my main edits and logged actions consist of preventing abuse. I also think the community needs another Steward due to the fact that we have 3 Stewards, and only 1 is fully active, and a person cannot manage every Steward-reserved matter by themselves. I would add additional coverage to spot and prevent complex disruption, such as by users who lack the skills necessary to edit. My question is, what does the community think? Add feedback here in the Survey section below. Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:30, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Survey

I would support. You have handled your tools well here and on other wikis, and are trustworthy. Piccadilly (My Contribs | Talk to me) 01:32, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I would not have any opposition to a potential run at some point in the near- to medium-term future. I would just recommend you articulate a clear need, invite questions from the community, and, perhaps, provide several situation-based examples to which you would articulate how you would handle those situations. As a Steward and an administrator of such elections, I will refrain from an expressing a view and stay neutral, so as to be impartial in any potential close. Dmehus (talk) 01:38, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

“With Drummingman's recent election to Steward, they are quite active here. Combined with my own resumption of being semi-active here, as well as MacFan4000, I feel there isn't a sufficient need for an additional Steward.” How is that different here? “I am not comfortable granting restricted permissions to someone I don't know, at least not without some on-wiki confirmation that they've held restricted tools on a Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom, or other major wiki or wiki farm. For Test Wiki is a recent launch, initiated as a protest wiki by one user who took issue with the way Public Test Wiki and/or Test Wiki are run. I do not consider holding restricted permissions on For Test Wiki to be sufficient demonstration that the user can be trusted.” How is that different either @Dmehus? X (talk) 01:45, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The former: I have articulated a need for Stewards based on activity, as well as an individual need for the tools. The latter: I'm Justarandomamerican on Miraheze and Wikimedia, and collaborated with Dmehus on Miraheze. Note that this comment are my thoughts on the matter, not his. Justarandomamerican (talk) 02:06, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I know, but @Dmehus has expressed that he doesn’t think we need another steward, so I’m asking for clarification. X (talk) 02:16, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I said I think it would need to be well-articulated on what the requesting user plans to do. While ideally some sort of global role would be nice to demonstrate the user is trusted, I actually thought Justarandomamerican was a Wikimedia Global Rollbacker, but I think I was thinking of JavaHurricane, with whom I've also collaborated on Miraheze and Public Test Wiki. IMHO, it [rfc:2119 should] be some sort of local or global role on Miraheze, Wikimedia, or Fandom that demonstrates the user is sufficiently trusted. For Wikimedia, it can probably be a local role, whereas on Miraheze, I'd say either a Miraheze Meta Wiki local role, Public Test Wiki Consul, or a Miraheze global role (other than global IP block exemption). For Fandom, it should be a Fandom global community or staff role. Hope that clarifies. :) Dmehus (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not a global rollbacker on WM as I have no need for that right at the moment, but I am an enwiki and simplewiki local rollbacker. I'm relatively trusted to prevent abuse. Justarandomamerican (talk) 02:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I would weak oppose, as you aren't super trusted on wikimedia, and there isn't a need, though I would consider supporting if you held a higher trust role on wikimedia (i.e template editor, massmessage sender, new pages reviewer, edit filter helper, page mover, file mover, autopatrol), or a high trust global role, as I'd rather see some form of trustworthy role, as rollback isn't that highly sanctioned. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The supposedly higher trust roles you describe are for a need and competency in entirely different areas: I'm not experienced enough to be a template editor, have no need to be a mass message sender, NPR is a user group assisting in dealing with content, not conduct, etc. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense. I’d say wait. Given that my RfS just failed with multiple people expressing that they don’t think a 4th steward is needed at all. X (talk) 13:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, there appears to be, given the fact that there are only 3 Stewards and only 1 is fully active. I plan on waiting a bit anyways. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, there are plenty of roles that aren't for an explicit need, they show you can be trusted, you have 2500 edits on wikimedia, which isn't very many, and I'd rather you had higher trust levels on other wikis. Zippybonzo (talk) 19:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

How is making 2500 edits not very many? Only 30% of registered Wikipedia users ever make one. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I've got around 6000 which isn't very many, I'd expect more like 7500. Zippybonzo (talk) 15:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I was inviting you to explain why that isn't enough, as that's more than 99.5% of all registered contributors, and I am seeking the position for an individual need for tools to prevent abuse. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:56, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

You don’t have a need for the tools, you have full access to the suite of admin tools which is enough to prevent abuse. I’m simply saying, that rollback isn’t that high trust, as they give it out to anyone who has a history of anti vandalism and meets the requirements, and 2500 edits is more than most users, but for a right giving access to look at IP addresses, I’d expect more trust on other wikis when the right isn’t entirely required. Zippybonzo (talk) 12:50, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I could say that nobody actually requires the tools. Dmehus doesn't actually have a need to look up IPs, but was given the toolkit anyways. Cross-wiki trust barely matters in a small community, or even a large one. Nobody judges a scowiki admin candidate on the basis that they only have rollback on enwiki. Nobody judges an enwiki admin for only having rollback and patroller on metamiraheze. Why is this required when I have a track record right here of making perfectly fine decisions? Simply put: if a candidate has a track record of making good decisions on the wiki they are requesting permissions, they are trusted, even if they have a bit lower trust elsewhere. Rollback on enwiki? Sure, it's a bit lower trust, but it does add to a case of a totality of the circumstances trustworthiness, which I say exists based on my track record here and elsewhere. Justarandomamerican (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

IMO a few of your decisions are far from good, which is why I’d want a right on another wiki that needs you to make good decisions. You still have no need for the right though, as there is 1 active steward, 1 semi-active steward, and a rarely active steward. Zippybonzo (talk) 02:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Please point me to a diff of a poor decision I made so that I can improve. A semi-active steward and one rarely active steward? That's why I'm requesting, there needs to be at least a duo of active stewards to handle any requests, as 1 person who is active isn't enough in any circumstance involving CU evidence, LTAs, and other forms of abuse that cannot be combated with the admin toolkit alone. People need other people to ask for review actively, not just a pair of semi-active stewards.Justarandomamerican (talk) 03:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

No, I also said an active steward as well, they are enough, the decision that was not great IMO was on FTW when you and X decided to take away IP privacy from abusive users, I’m not going to use it against you as I heavily doubt that you came up with the idea of it, but, there are a few conditions under which I’d support stewardship.

If any of the following conditions are met.

1. The wiki grows to the point where MacFan, Dmehus and Drummingman can’t prevent abuse.
2. You are more highly trusted on other wikis (not test ones or ones that just give out high trust permissions).
3. You show that you can perform actions similar to steward actions without significant opposition.

However IMO, 1 is so close to being met, that I’d probably support. Though I do consider this discussion to be pre discussion canvassing, you are a pretty highly qualified candidate, who inevitably I would have to support. Zippybonzo (talk) 06:37, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Relating to the privacy policy change, if you had a problem with the change, you should’ve said so in the waiting time before the policy took effect. I don’t consider this to be canvassing, given that they weren’t asking for support and it’s all public. I was looking on Wikipedia and it appears to be similar to wikipedia:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll. X (talk) 10:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I did air the concern but it was ignored. Zippybonzo (talk) 11:48, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I believe your concern was addressed by compromise: We replaced IP addresses with ranges, which are vague as to specific location, and cannot be used to identify 1 person in particular. I understand the concern about privacy, but some form of amendment was required to prevent disruption, and immediately after your feedback I realized that blocking IP addresses may not be the best way to go about preventing disruption from sockpuppetry, so now the PP allows for range blocks of CU-found IPs, not specific ones like was originally planned by X. I used rather vague wording whilst discussing the topic of preventing disruption from sockpuppetry, resulting in a privacy concern. My apologies. I certainly didn't mean for specific IPs to be blocked. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Amend Test Wiki:No open proxies to include colocation providers

Colocation providers also hide IPs, like proxies and webhosts, so they should logically be included. Change: "No open proxies, web hosts, or VPNs..." to "No open proxies, web hosts, VPNs, or colocation providers..." Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done as this is pretty uncontroversial and doesn’t warrant further discussion. X (talk) 16:21, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposal: Non steward CheckUser & Oversight/Suppressors

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Clear community opposition and proposer blocked. X (talk) 12:47, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

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Hello, I am proposing non-steward check user and oversight/suppressors, whilst there isn't an active need for extra check users or suppressors as of now, in my opinion, if there are enough people able to perform the role, then they should be in the role as it's always better to have more people when you don't need them but to have none when you need them. Because the two roles are quite high trust, I am proposing the following requirements for each role.

Checkuser:

1. Basic understanding of IP addresses and ranges and CIDR syntax.
2. Pass a vote on the community portal with either 80% support, or 70-80% at a steward's discretion.
3. Have a good understanding of account security.
4. Performing unnecessary or abusive checks will result in having your access revoked.

Suppressor:

1. Basic understanding of suppression criteria.
2. Pass a vote on the community portal with either 80% support, or 70-80% at a steward's discretion.
3. Have a good understanding of account security.

I believe that this is also a way for users to gain additional trust.

Being that the implementation of this could result in a lack of transparency with the community, I think that 2 additional groups should be added. These groups may not be added immediately,

non-steward-suppressorNon-steward suppressor

With the following rights:

unblockable

Add groups to own account: Suppressor

Remove groups from own account: Suppressor

non-steward-checkuser Non-steward CheckUser

With the following rights:

unblockable

checkuser-log

Add groups to own account: Check user

Remove groups from own account: Check user

Thank you, Zippybonzo (talk) 13:00, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support: This is a reasonable proposal, and allows trusted community members to assist Stewards in maintaining the wiki if they don't want or need the full steward toolset. Although, if someone is trusted enough for either of these, they should have at least part of the privileges of a Steward, such as the ability to indefinitely block in difficult cases, being exempt from the recommendations for bureaucrats. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose: Why do both sets of rights need the unblockable right? Dusti (talk) 14:53, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose as written, why should non-steward functionaries have the unblockable user right? If an emergency happens, a Bureaucrat should be able to block them from editing. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:24, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose. Why do they need unblockable? X (talk) 11:21, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.