Test Wiki:Community portal

The community portal is Test Wiki's village pump and noticeboards, two-in-one.
Archives: 1 • 2 • 3 • 4 • 5 • 6 • 7 • 8 • 9 • 10 • 11 • 12

Oversight role?

@MacFan4000 and Void: Do you think it'd be possible to get an oversight role? Seemplez (talk) 14:15, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@Seemplez: I'm just gonna bump in here, but there's no need for it right now. From what I've seen, everything is fine, and the CheckUser right isn't really needed either, the only use for the Steward permission is that it can revoke bureaucrat permissions from a user. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 17:29, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I think we already have both kinds of oversight on this wiki, from google I saw https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/oversight which is revision deletion you should already be able to do the admin kind of revision deletion, there is also the suppress kind, which was done to a few entries a long time ago by MacFan4000, but for that you need to be in the suppress user group and only the stewards can assign that. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 18:14, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

If a steward thinks you should have it, and assigns it to you, or you become a steward, then yes. Otherwise, no. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@Fast, Justarandomamerican, and BlackWidowMovie0: Thanks. Seemplez (talk) 11:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

CheckUser testing

Currently, as shown in Special:ListGroupRights, it seems that only bureaucrats may use the checkuser-limited permission. This permission allows checking oneself for the purpose of testing out the tool. It may be a good idea to grant this permission to administrators as administrators is the primary for-testing group here and it should not be necessary to request bureaucratship for testing. In addition, when it is only possible to check oneself there is very little capacity for damage (checking others will still be limited to Stewards).

Opinions? Naleksuh (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Agree checkuser-limited is not really that sensitive, and certainly has less potential for damage than many of the other rights bundled with administrator. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 03:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Agree. You can only test checkuser on yourself. Making a phabricator task..... Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Phabricator task Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

User:CptViraj

Please delete my userpage, Thanks! -- CptViraj (talk) 05:45, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

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•  Done --Q8j (talk) 08:26, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Spam abuse filters

I'd like to propose that we enable automatic blocking on our anti-spam abuse filters, as they have a rare false positive rate (and we can just unblock if there is a false positive). Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

 Support I Do think we could use filter for that. --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 18:51, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Good idea, I had considered proposing this for a while but had never got around to it. Blocking is a restricted action though, so this will need to be closed by a stewards. Naleksuh (talk) 23:28, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

We also need it because there is no way in hell I am doing this again. Naleksuh (talk) 00:10, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Geez, I normally mop up the mess the spambots make, and never have I had to give myself the bot flag, nor flood the log like that. Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:49, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Agree, and prompt autoblocks will also prevent the spambots from creating new accounts on the same IP for 24 hours reducing the hit rate and making it easier to find any false positives. We can always tweak the filters that result in immediate blocks if problems occur. It may be advisable to limit blocks only to registered accounts for now since they are so far responsible for nearly all edits that trip the filter. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

It looks like we had another Hell load of Bot accounts today and don't worry Nalekshu I can always do mass blocking if you need me to or want me to do it just Message me and I'll do it 🙂 --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 04:43, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 12:59, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Help, abuse filter blocked me

Hi, this is administrator User:PorkchopGMX editing under a VPN, a different browser, and a new account. I was editing one of my subpages, planning to delete it and use my test account to see what it would look like with the “researcher” user group, when the abuse filter thought I was spamming and blocked me indefinitely with autoblock. The only thing I can do right now (besides having to use a VPN) is to email somebody. I don’t know who I should email, so I’m doing this instead. If anybody is skeptical that this is really me, I do have access to my account and can email somebody if they need proof. PorkchopGMX’s throwaway account that will only be used once (talk) 16:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello i already unblocked your main account please Do not use a Vpn i will GO ahead and Unblock your ip aswell so you can edit --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 16:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Cocopuff2018, I’m unblocked now. PorkchopGMX (talk) 16:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Proposal : Remove SocialProfile

Does anyone even like it? I would certainly support it being removed Naleksuh (talk) 22:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I honestly don't care if it's removed. Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Actually, I weakly oppose just for the communications options (userboard and such), if somebody wants a wiki user page, they get one, as there's a switch to toggle wiki userpages on. Justarandomamerican (talk) 03:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican: No, it still leaves that stupid banner which people might not want and does random crap like auto-creating user pages and other clutter. It is simply a nuisance to this wiki. Naleksuh (talk) 06:28, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Also, I don't love that non-existent user page titles show up as bluelinks. That probably should be fixed upstream, but until then, I think it should be removed. For what it's worth, it's a banned extension on Public Test Wiki. Dmehus (talk) 07:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I strongly support removing this extension, at least until such time as SocialProfile's extension developers migrate the social profiles to a UserProfile namespace and move wiki user pages where they rightly belong, in User namespace. Dmehus (talk) 23:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

"High chance of spam" filters and false positives

The spam filters have recently falsely blocked two users (User:PorkchopGMX and User:Dmehus) as spammers that were not. As a temporary solution User:MacFan4000 has set them to just disallow again, but they clearly need to block provided we can remove false positives.

I suggest requiring 0 edits for block. Generally spambots trip this filter on their first edit, so anyone who has made any successful edits is likely not a spambot. Any other ideas? Naleksuh (talk) 23:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

The filter should also require the creation of a new page. It already does for one of the filters, but it should for the other too. Naleksuh (talk) 23:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused, perhaps. Wouldn't requiring 0 edits to block increase the false positive blocks? Administrators are active here, and can revert spam quickly. I'd suggest just setting it to either warn or disallow permanently, with anyone with autopatrol in their user_rights exempted from the filter. Dmehus (talk) 23:46, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think so. Most administrators have more than 1 edit. I support requiring 0 edits. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@Dmehus: How would narrowing when blocks are placed increase false positives? Naleksuh (talk) 00:00, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, in my case, I only had one edit, and maybe I'm not understanding the central idea idea, but wouldn't reducing the edit requirement mean I would've been blocked when I made my permission request? Note that I never tried to add an external link—it was just an interwiki link. Dmehus (talk) 00:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

No, because your permissions request didn’t contain anything that would trip the filter. Also, I just tested that change, and it doesn’t work because most spambots are seeming to first make a change to their SocialProfile, which I guess counts as an edit. Or at least & user_editcount == 0 nothing trips the filter when I test it. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 13:35, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh, okay, well, I suppose it doesn't hurt to try it then, since you've tested the filter against recent edits. Plus, yeah, spam only accounts do tend add spammy links into their social profiles. Having said that, on some wikis on Miraheze what we do is simply add the SocialProfile-related rights to autoconfirmed, and that stops the spam only accounts cold, with minimal impacts on legitimate users. Also, if the above community proposal passes, this may end up being moot. Dmehus (talk) 15:57, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

If the above community proposal fails, I support moving updateprofile into autoconfirmed. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:34, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Justarandomamerican request for stewardship (2)

Statement by requestor: I'd like to request the globe again. I've been active and taking out the trash, and now my account is not newly registered. CU and Oversight rights would be helpful in performing maintenance and counter-vandalism and spam. (which I regularly do) It's been approximately a month since my last request, and I feel I have addressed the opposing argument. Justarandomamerican (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Support

Procedural support as requestor and per my requesting argument. Justarandomamerican (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Wasn't planning to comment but then I noticed canvassing at User_talk:LukeSkywalker26. Naleksuh (talk) 02:32, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment: It was a friendly message, not intending to influence discussion in a way. I really shouldn't have to clarify that. W:WP:CANVASS Justarandomamerican (talk) 02:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Neutral/Abstain

• I'm not familiar with this wiki's policy requirements on access to personally identifying information. If suppressor can be granted independent of checkuser, this is something I could potentially support. My interactions with you, assuming you're the same Justarandomliberal on Miraheze, have been fine, though I don't know you well enough to support for Steward on this wiki. At the same time, MacFan4000 and Void are active enough on this wiki to perform any CheckUser functions, I think. Dmehus (talk) 00:56, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
• Comment:The requirements for PII here are just pretty much pass a RfS and follow the privacy policy. Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:01, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
  • @Dmehus: Personally I think Oversight is a more larger deal than CheckUser. Naleksuh (talk) 01:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
    • @Naleksuh: Potentially, yes, that's true, though I'm not sure what information may have been suppressed. If it is IP addresses, largely, of users who edited while logged out, then it's probably the same. If it's grossly insulting and potentially libelous or defamatory information requiring suppression, then the concern for me is whether the user will be trusted not to divulge that information. The same is true of CheckUser, certainly, though. It's probably a wash, really, with you believing Oversight is the greater concern and me believing CheckUser is the greater concern. Dmehus (talk) 01:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
• Neutral I'm sorry but I agree with Dmehus I feel we don't need more Stewards Sorry --Cocopuff2018 (talk) 01:52, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
• Comment Only one steward is active in a community capacity (MacFan). The other is mostly active as a system administrator, semi-active in a community capacity. (which is completely fine) We need one more active steward in a community capacity, certainly. Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
• Abstain While all my interactions so far with Justarandomamerican have been positive, I don't feel I know them (as well as their contributions here) well enough yet in order to be able to vote yes/no on this matter. Reception123 (talk) 19:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Involved closure, but consensus is unanimous here. Nobody had an opposing or neutral argument. Cheers, Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

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Proposal: No open proxies policy

Community proposal: To establish as official policy, subject to amendment at Test Wiki:Community portal, No open proxies policy. Such policy shall prohibit open proxies, somewhat broadly construed, VPNs, and web hosts from being used for anonymous editing or account creation. On discovery, a Steward shall soft block with account creation disabled and talk page access revoked said IP range(s) for a period of not less than three (3) and not more than twenty four (24) months. Logged in editors may use them, as is the case on Miraheze, as at least the user will have been likely required to identify their personal IP to create an account. Where, upon discovery, an account was created by a VPN/open proxy, Steward discretion applies as to whether to block, or require a confirmation edit from a Wikimedia or Miraheze wiki. Steward discretion in terms of the length of the block/rangeblock applies, within the defined parameters, but the community recomments at least six (6) months for obvious cases. Where open proxies/VPNs are being used on this wiki by anonymous users, the open proxies/VPNs may be blocked by any sysop, subject to the same discretion as outlined above.

Support

• Strong support as proposer. Dmehus (talk) 20:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
• Support Open proxies have probably been used for long term abuse since this wiki began. This would help stop that. Justarandomamerican (talk) 03:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
•  Support While I'm very new here, I've heard this wiki has had some unfortunate instances of trolling and vandalism. In my experience, allowing account creations from open proxies/VPNs as well as anonymous editing for them usually causes trouble. There has been a NOPP in place at Miraheze since the beginning of 2017 and having a clear policy on the matter could be helpful and allow for routine soft blocks of VPNs and open proxies. While of course a policy likely won't stop trolls, it would make it easier to immediately soft block VPNs and open proxies once they are discovered. Reception123 (talk) 18:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments

• "soft block with account creation disabled " Soft block inherently means having this enabled, what did you mean here? Naleksuh (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

  Naleksuh Yeah, I know that, but I just added that "with account creation disabled" for users who may not know that that's inherent with a soft IP block. Dmehus (talk) 21:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

• Soft blocking all open proxies upon discovery is a bit much for only stewards to do. There are only 2 stewards around here, unless the RfS above passes (might have a No Consensus closure with all those neutrals). Maybe change it to stewards or bureaucrats? Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:12, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

  Oh, sure, that's no problem, but to be clear, I just mean if they discovered open proxies in the course of a CheckUser from an abuse investigation, but if anonymous IPs are being used publicly on this wiki, any sysop could block. Dmehus (talk) 03:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.