Test Wiki:Community portal

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Latest comment: 30 June by Tailsultimatefan3891 in topic Consensus for Extension:NewUserMessage
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UserRightsManager

The name of the userRightsManager gadget has changed, so some users may have the tick turned off. It may be necessary to re-enable it in the preferences. LisafBia (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

We encourage bureaucrats, if you have last edited before June 2024, to re-enable its preferences. This user   supports this decision. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 20:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Systemadministrator

Inactivity for AFAs

Should inactivity for AFAs be measured in regular terms, or should it be measured by the last time an abuse filter was modified by an AFA, or perhaps even the last time a filter was modified to use a restricted action or a restricted filter was modified? I'd like to know consensus on this before I go and modify the inactivity policy. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I would choose when the last time some AFA modified a regular abuse filter (without restricted actions). Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 02:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
We don't have a bot for it yet? That checks for inactivity? Justman10000 (talk) 16:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Nope. It's a manual process. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Would be at least 3 months at least I can suggest. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 12:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Request for System administratorship

Inactivity bot

Think about writing one! Should they revoke the permissions directly, or just notify? Justman10000 (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'd say it should send notifications to the community portal at first, and upon demonstrating it works, have it make rights temporary when the user will be considered inactive in 2 weeks. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Systemadminstrator... or steward?

When would one be willing to accept me as a system administrator? I would be extremely unhappy to have to work for many months, a year or more! And would I have to become a steward first? Or could I be nominated and elected directly as a system administrator! Actually, the work itself says something about someone! Not the duration of the work Justman10000 (talk) 18:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

This is probably due to your account age, and please do not take this for granted, but your suitability to those high-trust roles (non-test roles) are what might concern me. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 18:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Why? I mean, rejecting someone just because their account is too young... Actions are what define one, not the duration of one's collaboration Justman10000 (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
System administrators can shut down the wiki at any time they please. They can also make decisions such as amending the privacy policy or blocking entire IP addresses from even being able to access the site. For this reason, the community wants to see quality and quantity of contributions from prospective system administrators. The same goes for prospective members of any non-test role that can make major decisions, such as AFAs and Stewards. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
And how old should an account be? Justman10000 (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Anywhere between 8 months to a year at least. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 19:06, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
How did you come up with exactly 8? Could be only 6 or 5 too Justman10000 (talk) 22:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
So, how about this, I recommend you have between 7 and 12 months of activity at least and know how to use PHP, Git, and SSH, and also recommend getting a Github account and sign in to it. If you don't have a Github account, you can register a Github account. I would also recommend to be active on the Wiki and be an administrator or bureaucrat and suggest for the best experience before system administrator, I would at least recommend requesting Steward permissions and also get a server from Linux Debian, MySQL, MariaDB, PostgreSQL, or SQLite and have an understanding of it. To be a Steward you can have at least 5 or 6 months of activity at least. I suggest you also have an understanding of Apache HTTP Server. Please read and heed any advice you need. Thanks. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 14:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
As I said, I've been working with Linux Debian for over 4 years! So I'm already familiar with everything mentioned! I've also had a GitHub account for years!
And do I have to wait the 7-12 months AFTER my successful election as a steward, or just add the rest from the 4-5 months after the steward election? Justman10000 (talk) 15:55, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm sorry, you just joined late. In addition, I should say that you are too new there for Steward or System Administrator privileges. However, according to ChatGPT:
"Yes, MediaWiki supports Linux Debian Server. MediaWiki, the software that powers Wikipedia, is designed to run on a variety of operating systems, including Linux. Debian, a popular Linux distribution, is well-suited for running MediaWiki due to its stability, security, and robust package management system."
It is OK to use Linux Debian there on MediaWiki, but learn how to use Git, PHP, and SSH and also be active on this wiki. Please read and heed any advice. Thanks. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 20:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I know that MediaWiki also runs on Linux Debian? Huh? You indicated yourself that test wiki runs on a Linux Debian machine? And as I said, I already understand all mentioned Justman10000 (talk) 06:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Well, yep. Kinda so, according to ChatGPT. Just wait a few months and be active enough to become system administrator. You know? I'm not a system administrator either! Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 20:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
But I am sorry, Justman10000, this is a high trust role. Try again next time... Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 20:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I don't want to say that, but somehow... you're playing yourself up Justman10000 (talk) 08:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

It's real, not fake. And for true, only 1 is currently system administrator. However, this makes no flexibility for a regular steward to be flexible with a user that jumped from being a non-steward to a system administrator. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 12:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to clarify that this is a test wiki, which means that anyone can experiment with MediaWiki functionality here. Within this space, users can request various permissions except for sys admin and steward, specifically for testing purposes. Sys admin and steward rights are crucial for the smooth operation of this wiki and are not intended for testing purposes. Steward rights are granted to users who invest significant time here, and the community trusts their judgment for sensitive actions. Similarly, the system admin right is not given out for testing; it's essential for maintaining the wiki's smooth functioning. At the moment, we have one sys admin diligently fulfilling their duties. Should the need arise, the community or founder can nominate trusted and technically proficient users to take up the sys admin role. I hope this clarifies things. DR (talk) 13:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes, this is correct, as gaining sysop and bureaucrat rights and being active for the wiki is the minimum for Steward or System Administrator rights, with additional System Administrators requiring know how to use PHP, Git, SSH, recommended MySQL, MariaDB, Linux Debian, SQLite, PostgreSQL, Apache, Github, and Phabricator and gaining Steward rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 13:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Nothing I didn't already know Justman10000 (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
What does that have to do with my comment? Justman10000 (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Involving the user rights for you. Tailsultimatefan3891 talkcontribs 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Justman10000: I would like you to respond and reply here. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 15:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I still have no idea what you're talking about Justman10000 (talk) 16:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Justman10000: Here's the deal, you may have at least 7 months of activity and be active on this wiki to meet this criteria. You already meet other criteria, but I recommend yourself being a steward first. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 17:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Nominating Drummingman for system adminship

Wiki changes to propose upcoming

In the next few days somehow, I will post a bulk inserting of wiki changes here on the community portal. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 00:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Help to make an icon

Can anyone make a user icon for system administrator? As I am not good in that stuff and I need the icon to be added to the newsletters, I'm pinging @Codename Noreste as he previously updated some icons The AP (talk) 14:59, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

We could make it together. So what do we think? Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 15:41, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
GIMP or Inkspace can be very useful for this kind of work. LisafBia (talk) 15:53, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I have Canva, so I will make the logo shortly. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 06:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  Done! I uploaded File:TW-Sysadmin.png. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 06:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much! The AP (talk) 09:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Proposal

Just like we have a disqualification section in bureaucrat policy why don’t we have a steward policy that covers how does the rights of stewards and non-steward suppressor are removed.I have noticed that some users with advanced rights i.e, steward and NSS remain inactive most of the time and come by once to make some little changes or perform actions once in 1-2 months so they can retain their rights. For example EPIC Who is a Wikimedia steward and hold administrator right at Swedish Wikipedia, I think he’s a bit busy that he can actively contribute to this project and same goes with Doug a.k.a. Dmehus who is semi active at Miraheze and really inactive at this project.Additionally X has been active for past few days. With this in mind I think we definitely need a way where the community can remove such advanced rights from the users through voting. Such a resolution can be taken place when at least one or more steward and or 5 or more Crats are supporting that proposals.This way we can hold the users accountable for misuses also The AP (talk) 14:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

While this is happening, one of the bulk changes will be an addition of the consul permission, which can handle up to 6 months of inactivity to handle their rights and instead stewards can handle up to 9 months of inactivity to handle their rights. This may interfere with this discussion. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 20:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
This needs to be fleshed out more: What sort of consensus is required to remove Steward rights? What sort of consensus is required to remove NSS rights? How will the system prevent trolls or people holding grudges from missing it? Justarandomamerican (talk) 04:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Well it is not remove Steward rights. It is to add Consul rights between Bureaucrat and Steward rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 11:35, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Tailsultimatefan3891 You should start a new section for discussion of consul permissions; please carry out only steward policy-related discussion here. The AP (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Reasons for Removal
The rights for stewards and NSS can be removed only under two circumstances:
1.) Misuse of Rights: Any actions taken by a steward or NSS that are deemed as a misuse of their powers.
2.) Inactivity: A period of inactivity that is less than that specified in the inactivity policy.
Initiating a Resolution
To initiate the removal of rights, a resolution must be started at the community portal. The specific requirements for starting such a resolution are as follows:
For Stewards: The resolution must be supported by at least 2 stewards and/or 5 bureaucrats.
For NSS: The resolution must be supported by at least 1 steward and/or 1 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats.
Discussion and Voting Period
Once a resolution is initiated:
Discussion Period: The discussion must last for a minimum of 14 days and can extend up to a maximum of 30 days. This period allows for a thorough and reflective conversation among community members.
Voting Period: Voting will commence after one week of discussion.
Voting Requirements
In order to vote in the redesign, the user must have bureaucratic rights and have made 50 edits since acquiring admin rights
To ensure the removal of rights:
For Stewards: At least 80% of the votes must support the removal.
For NSS: At least 70% of the votes must support the removal. The AP (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Justarandomamerican,this isn't perfect and it is just an idea of what purpose this would serve, if there is community consensus for the policy then I will proceed further The AP (talk) 18:13, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would   support the idea of adding to the Stewards page or creating some sort of Test Wiki:Removal of non-test rights page to make such provisions. I prefer the former. I feel it would be useful. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:22, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
In my opinions, I would   Support this proposal. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 18:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Once I reach home I will make up the page as it seems there is community consensus for it The AP (talk) 04:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would   Support it, but with the following additional condition: Only users who have at least the bureaucratic right, and who have made at least 50 (non-vandalistic) edits two weeks before the start of the discussion period, can vote during the impeachment process. This is to prevent trolls/vandals or troublemakers etc. from deploying sock puppets and/or meat puppets. Of course, other users who cannot meet those requirements are allowed to keep participating in the discussion of course they are not allowed to use sock puppets, and they are not allowed to vote. Drummingman (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC) Reply
How does this apply to system administrators? Justarandomamerican (talk) 20:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC).Reply
support provisionally crossed out due to practical concerns, from Justarandomamerican. Drummingman (talk) 21:57, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@TheAstorPastor The only way I can think of is for stewards to have access to user rights and the server without being System administrators. This is to be able to add and remove rights; otherwise you have a system that is not foolproof. I honestly wonder if this is all well-thought-out now that I see these practical objections? We are a small community, this seems very difficult. A possible solution could also be, merge stewards and SA into the new users right 'Steward'. If 2 stewards or fewer remain, impeachment from the community is not possible. Drummingman (talk) 22:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I still would   Support this proposal, but for the resolutions, for the stewards, 2 stewards and/or 4 NSS and/or 4 AFAs, and/or 5 bureaucrats and/or 15 administrators, and for the NSSes and AFAs, 1 steward, 2 AFAs and/or 2 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats and/or 12 administrators. But I am not sure because the upcoming consul permission may interfere with the requirements. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 01:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Drummingman:   Oppose the removal of system administrator right. As a steward combined they can be so powerful that they can lock the database or grant all user rights. However, later, I will announce the consul right as in between bureaucrat and steward, as an equivalent to sheriff on thetestwiki.org so system administrator rights will be slightly more rarely given than earlier to keep it balanced. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 01:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Justarandomamerican and @Drummingman Well SA rights can be removed in a similar fashion i.e, 2 steward, and or 5 bureaucrat .We are a small community with 4 Steward,2 NSS and 2 SA.If there is 2 steward then definitely the impeachment is not possible but there is another way that is 5 bureaucrats. Existing steward may check user the votes so there is no sockpuppetry or meat puppetry. The AP (talk) 11:36, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Another possibility is that SA rights can't be removed for inactivity, which is less than specified in TW:IP because we only have 2 SA, out of which MacFan4000 remains inactive most of the time. But they can be removed for misuse. The AP (talk) 11:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  Neutral at this point. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Justarandomamerican Do you think that I should proceed with the policy or wait a little bit longer? The AP (talk) 15:50, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
It would need to be closed by an uninvolved user, and I would not say that consensus has been reached yet. I would suggest taking all the feedback you’ve received and create a user subpage of what the updated rights pages would look like and create a new thread for the community to vote on. X (talk + contribs) 15:52, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for the feedback. Would you care to close the thread? The AP (talk) 17:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I am now also   Neutral because, no practical solution has been found for the SA combination stewards. Drummingman (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sorry to argue about this, but system administrator rights are very powerful and I oppose on this decision. Like again:
"I still would   Support this proposal, but for the resolutions, for the stewards, 2 stewards and/or 4 NSS and/or 4 AFAs, and/or 5 bureaucrats and/or 15 administrators, and for the NSSes and AFAs, 1 steward, 2 AFAs and/or 2 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats and/or 12 administrators. But I am not sure because the upcoming consul permission may interfere with the requirements."
And another statement I made:
"  Oppose the removal of system administrator right. As a steward combined they can be so powerful that they can lock the database or grant all user rights. However, later, I will announce the consul right as in between bureaucrat and steward, as an equivalent to sheriff on thetestwiki.org so system administrator rights will be slightly more rarely given than earlier to keep it balanced."
In addition, non-bureaucrats can vote during the impeachment process as long as they made at least 70 (non-vandalism) edits 1 week prior to, has been registered for at least 1 month, and needs to be an administrator. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 22:39, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Question

Do I have to pass a vote at the community portal for requesting bureaucrat rights? Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 12:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

No. You need Steward approval, or have consensus here for your rights to be reinstated. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
OK, I requested rights below. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 20:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Bureaucracy of Tailsultimatefan3891

  • User: Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk · contribs · deleted · logs · rights)
  • Requested right: Bureaucrat (indef or until inactive for 3 months)
  • Link to your account in other projects, e.g. Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom (optional): Rating System Wiki Contentpedia
  • [I agree] I am familiar with all of Test Wiki's policies and agree to follow them completely.
  • [I also agree] I agree that I am entirely responsible for all actions done under this account, including actions performed under this account by someone other than myself.
  • [I also agree] I agree that if I misuse the tools, my access might be revoked and I may be banned from Test Wiki without prior warning.
  • [I also agree] Note this right can only be granted by stewards.

Other comments: I would suggest passing a vote here. I know what are the risks here. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 20:16, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Support

Sockpuppetry suspected. I assume the stewards are investigating. X (talk + contribs) 20:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
No relation between Mihai and Tailsultimatefan. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes, it was not me who did it by confirmation. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 16:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Oppose

Neutral/Abstain

Comments

Sometimes, I see some (if not most) of their edits in Abuse filter test trying to trigger and test some filters. Maybe you should do other non-test work here. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 23:30, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
It is just a test. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 23:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Discussion

Suppression Reports

Not sure if this was ever officially announced, but you can go to Special:Report/REVID to report a revision that needs suppressed. X (talk + contribs) 21:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

When I installed the extension, I announced it on Discord, but never made an announcement here. *facepalm* Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:04, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
*sigh* *ahem* I agree on this feature. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 21:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
You’re fine, no problem! X (talk + contribs) 21:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
It's also included in the newsletter :) The AP (talk) 15:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Cool, right? Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 17:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Discord error

 

I joined the Discord yesterday but couldn't verify (see image). Could someone take a look? Thanks. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talkcontribs) 03:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Wait a little bit or try to refresh (especially if taking indefinitely long), if still not working, check your Discord settings, and then try to refresh again, if not repeat this cycle until you believe the Discord settings are correct, then if it still happens, check your browser settings and refresh, repeat this cycle, if it is not clear your cache, and if still not working try to restart your computer Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 14:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
It is already fixed by me. Greetings Drummingman (talk) 19:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for fixing this. CanonNi, try to refresh tab. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 01:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yup, got it working. Thanks, both of you. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talkcontribs) 04:27, 27 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Consensus for Extension:NewUserMessage

Justarandomamerican recently closed a task that intended to add Extension:NewUserMessage which would add a message to the talk pages of newly created accounts.The reason for closure was that he needed to see community consensus. Please note down your vote in suitable sections The AP (talk) 17:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Support

Oppose

  •   Oppose Honestly, this extension should NOT be implemented. To all of the users who will register when this bot is in operation will have their talk pages created automatically by this extension's bot with the standard {{welcome}} template and signature. Who knows who the bot welcomes and what those users' intentions will be? Most of those users will not deserve a welcome on their talk pages because they'll be users who will never make a single contribution here, so what's the point in welcoming users like them? This includes the future spam-bots and vandals of course. I view what the bot will do as spam and excessive clogging to the User talk: namespace. I prefer that we, this time, stick to welcoming new users on our own, to the ones who'll register and actually make their first constructive edits, or other ways from them that show their deserving of these messages. Tsukushi (talk) 08:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    I would disagree. This Wiki is small and there are very little new users (only 13 accounts were registered last month). Even if certain users use their accounts for malicious purposes, they are easily blockable because, remember, almost everyone is an admin here. And if the extension does cause problems, it can be easily disabled. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talkcontribs) 11:41, 29 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Furthermore, welcoming people and giving them quick links to request rights is helpful to new users that aren’t familiar with the layout of the wiki. There isn’t always someone online that will welcome them. X (talk + contribs) 01:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    I would not oppose in the favor in that question. Tailsultimatefan3891 talklogscontribs 22:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Neutral

Discussion

I would like to remind you all that consensus is !voting. The opposition argument above will be given significantly more weight, as will any well thought out supporting or neutral arguments. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)Reply