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:::My intention was also not to wheel war. I know EPIC mentioned some suggestions for "requirements" for the 'crat role. However, as of now, those do not exist, making the rule about being a sysop first pointless. There is some Wikimedia essay about not following the policies if doing so would prevent you from improving the site, but I can't remember what it was titled. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 11:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC) | :::My intention was also not to wheel war. I know EPIC mentioned some suggestions for "requirements" for the 'crat role. However, as of now, those do not exist, making the rule about being a sysop first pointless. There is some Wikimedia essay about not following the policies if doing so would prevent you from improving the site, but I can't remember what it was titled. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 11:51, 11 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:You can remove the bureaucrat right from my account since I won’t be using it. I have MediaWiki installed on my local machine for testing purposes, and I already have all the advanced rights there. Here on this test wiki, my goal is to assist others by deploying some important and useful scripts and translating help pages. Initially, I thought that crats have access to grant the interface admin right, but it appears they do not, so I no longer require this role. Could any Steward please grant the interface admin right to my account? I would like to deploy some useful gadgets. Also, for granting requirements, I believe granting the bureaucrat role should be discretionary. [[User:DR|DR]] ([[User talk:DR|talk]]) 09:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC) | :You can remove the bureaucrat right from my account since I won’t be using it. I have MediaWiki installed on my local machine for testing purposes, and I already have all the advanced rights there. Here on this test wiki, my goal is to assist others by deploying some important and useful scripts and translating help pages. Initially, I thought that crats have access to grant the interface admin right, but it appears they do not, so I no longer require this role. Could any Steward please grant the interface admin right to my account? I would like to deploy some useful gadgets. Also, for granting requirements, I believe granting the bureaucrat role should be discretionary. [[User:DR|DR]] ([[User talk:DR|talk]]) 09:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:We should definitely set requirements for gaining crat. It is a powerful position, and any disruptive user can easily misuse it. Since EPIC knew DR , there would not be a problem, but if a random user came and requested sysop and crat, there is a chance of vandalism or disruption. I propose that a user must wait 24 hours and make 10 edits before requesting crat rights [[User: | :We should definitely set requirements for gaining crat. It is a powerful position, and any disruptive user can easily misuse it. Since EPIC knew DR , there would not be a problem, but if a random user came and requested sysop and crat, there is a chance of vandalism or disruption. I propose that a user must wait 24 hours and make 10 edits before requesting crat rights [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 06:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::It's not a terribly powerful position, since it's mostly a testing right, but that being said, it ''does'' require an extra degree of trust as it includes extra permissions like <code>nuke</code> and <code>import</code>, which ''can'' cause vandalism that is time consuming to revert if used by unscrupulous actors. Since Justarandomamerican initiated the discussion, I will contribute here and allow Drummingman or MacFan4000 to close. Your suggestion of 10 edits is a good one, but I'd also add a time requirement and would suggest a minimum of a four day wait ''unless'' the user previously held user rights here, then the waiting period requirement is waived. We could also add in an alternate pathway to waive the waiting period requirement, such has having a confirmation edit from a mainstream wiki farm (Wikimedia, Fandom, or Miraheze) and being a known user in good standing there. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 01:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ::It's not a terribly powerful position, since it's mostly a testing right, but that being said, it ''does'' require an extra degree of trust as it includes extra permissions like <code>nuke</code> and <code>import</code>, which ''can'' cause vandalism that is time consuming to revert if used by unscrupulous actors. Since Justarandomamerican initiated the discussion, I will contribute here and allow Drummingman or MacFan4000 to close. Your suggestion of 10 edits is a good one, but I'd also add a time requirement and would suggest a minimum of a four day wait ''unless'' the user previously held user rights here, then the waiting period requirement is waived. We could also add in an alternate pathway to waive the waiting period requirement, such has having a confirmation edit from a mainstream wiki farm (Wikimedia, Fandom, or Miraheze) and being a known user in good standing there. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 01:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
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::::::{{done}}. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 02:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ::::::{{done}}. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 02:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
==Crat requirements's [[ | ==Crat requirements's [[Test Wiki:Bureaucrat policy|policy]]== | ||
{{discussion top |{{done}} After 2 weeks and with 3 votes in favour and 1 in opposition and no comments by any other users even after pinging I am closing this discussion as successful [[User: | {{discussion top |{{done}} After 2 weeks and with 3 votes in favour and 1 in opposition and no comments by any other users even after pinging I am closing this discussion as successful [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 13:37, 12 May 2024 (UTC)}} | ||
As in the above discussion, I have established [[ | As in the above discussion, I have established [[Test Wiki:Bureaucrat policy|policy]]-related criteria for the CRT position, as previously stated by Dmehus, " {{talk quote inline|It's not [...] require an extra degree of trust as it includes extra permissions like nuke and import which can cause vandalism [...]}}. [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 18:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
===Adoption Discussion=== | ===Adoption Discussion=== | ||
As a policy, this would practically just codify community norms on how to grant crat rights. I propose (and support) adopting this as policy. | As a policy, this would practically just codify community norms on how to grant crat rights. I propose (and support) adopting this as policy. | ||
*{{support}} [[User: | *{{support}} [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 18:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*{{support|Conditional support}}: I'll support this with the modifications I have made. There should be some level of discretion granted to Stewards, as this is a test wiki, and trusted users should be able to bypass the requirements, along with Stewards being able to requalify a person. Otherwise, I'd say this is a reasonable security requirement. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 18:59, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | *{{support|Conditional support}}: I'll support this with the modifications I have made. There should be some level of discretion granted to Stewards, as this is a test wiki, and trusted users should be able to bypass the requirements, along with Stewards being able to requalify a person. Otherwise, I'd say this is a reasonable security requirement. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 18:59, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*{{Support|Conditional support}} The draft policy isn't ''exactly'' as I would've liked, but it's reasonable. Justarandomamerican's reason for additional, [[w:WP:COMMONSENSE|common sense]] exceptions by Stewards is also reasonable, and so I support that. It arguably goes without saying Stewards are able to do this anyway, but I support making this a conditional requirement for my support. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 19:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | *{{Support|Conditional support}} The draft policy isn't ''exactly'' as I would've liked, but it's reasonable. Justarandomamerican's reason for additional, [[w:WP:COMMONSENSE|common sense]] exceptions by Stewards is also reasonable, and so I support that. It arguably goes without saying Stewards are able to do this anyway, but I support making this a conditional requirement for my support. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 19:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*What do you guys think about Dmehus suggestion {{talk quote inline|to waive the waiting period requirement, such has having a confirmation edit from a mainstream wiki farm (Wikimedia, Fandom, or Miraheze) and being a known user in good standing there.}}Should we make a change with respect to this? [[User: | *What do you guys think about Dmehus suggestion {{talk quote inline|to waive the waiting period requirement, such has having a confirmation edit from a mainstream wiki farm (Wikimedia, Fandom, or Miraheze) and being a known user in good standing there.}}Should we make a change with respect to this? [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 02:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*{{comment}} Changed the criteria from ''"must have been a registered user for a minimum of 4 days"'' to ''"must have been an'' '''administrator''''' for a minimum of 4 days"''As any user can ask for crat rights before they even get sysop (the registered criteria is also mentioned on the top) [[User: | *{{comment}} Changed the criteria from ''"must have been a registered user for a minimum of 4 days"'' to ''"must have been an'' '''administrator''''' for a minimum of 4 days"''As any user can ask for crat rights before they even get sysop (the registered criteria is also mentioned on the top) [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 13:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*:I'd prefer that, [[User: | *:I'd prefer that, [[User:TheAstorPastor|Harvici]]. I would've preferred your language originally, but wasn't enough to cause me oppose the proposal. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 23:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*{{oppose|Strong oppose}} How long has it been since someone has abused their bureaucrat permissions? Months, at least. This simply makes it harder for users to test, and as such, I oppose. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | *{{oppose|Strong oppose}} How long has it been since someone has abused their bureaucrat permissions? Months, at least. This simply makes it harder for users to test, and as such, I oppose. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
*:This isn't about adding revocation criteria, [[User:X|X]]. As it stands, if you're an existing bureaucrat, you meet the exception criteria to have the bit re-added without the waiting period requirement. I would, however, potentially suggest adding a requirement that the <code>bureaucrat</code> user group is limited to the user's main account only. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]], thoughts? [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 23:24, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | *:This isn't about adding revocation criteria, [[User:X|X]]. As it stands, if you're an existing bureaucrat, you meet the exception criteria to have the bit re-added without the waiting period requirement. I would, however, potentially suggest adding a requirement that the <code>bureaucrat</code> user group is limited to the user's main account only. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]], thoughts? [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 23:24, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
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*:::We wouldn't be able to technically restrict it, no, but, rather, it would provide automatic revocation criteria for the <code>bureaucrat</code> bit if Stewards suspect the two users are the same, or where the user has confirmed the two accounts are the same. That is, the bit would be removed from the legitimate sockpuppet accounts and a Steward would remind users to '''pick one''' account they want their bureaucrat bit on. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 02:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *:::We wouldn't be able to technically restrict it, no, but, rather, it would provide automatic revocation criteria for the <code>bureaucrat</code> bit if Stewards suspect the two users are the same, or where the user has confirmed the two accounts are the same. That is, the bit would be removed from the legitimate sockpuppet accounts and a Steward would remind users to '''pick one''' account they want their bureaucrat bit on. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 02:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*::::With the provisions for common sense exceptions by Stewards, that's fine. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 13:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *::::With the provisions for common sense exceptions by Stewards, that's fine. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 13:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*{{comment}} It has been 2 weeks since the start of the discussion, and there are 3 votes in support and 1 in opposition. I wouldn't close this discussion today and wait for 24 hours more to see if anyone else wants to opine and also suggest others do the same.The following users were active in the month of May (5TH May) so pinging them if they want to opine: @[[User:Aviram7|Aviram7]],[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]], [[User:C1K98V|C1K98V]],[[User:Codename Noreste |Codename Noreste ]], [[User:DodoMan |DodoMan ]], [[User:Sav |Sav ]],[[User:Wüstenspringmaus|Wüstenspringmaus ]] [[User: | *{{comment}} It has been 2 weeks since the start of the discussion, and there are 3 votes in support and 1 in opposition. I wouldn't close this discussion today and wait for 24 hours more to see if anyone else wants to opine and also suggest others do the same.The following users were active in the month of May (5TH May) so pinging them if they want to opine: @[[User:Aviram7|Aviram7]],[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]], [[User:C1K98V|C1K98V]],[[User:Codename Noreste |Codename Noreste ]], [[User:DodoMan |DodoMan ]], [[User:Sav |Sav ]],[[User:Wüstenspringmaus|Wüstenspringmaus ]] [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 14:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
{{discussion bottom}} | {{discussion bottom}} | ||
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::::::::::::This also makes it extremely difficult to make small changes to abusefilters, or fix bugs. This is a solution looking for a problem, in addition to being extremely bureaucratic. Must I remind everyone that this is a testwiki, where people test tools like abusefilter? [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 17:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ::::::::::::This also makes it extremely difficult to make small changes to abusefilters, or fix bugs. This is a solution looking for a problem, in addition to being extremely bureaucratic. Must I remind everyone that this is a testwiki, where people test tools like abusefilter? [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 17:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::::::::::{{support|Strong Support }} I added a lot of content to the [[User:Codename Noreste/Abuse filter|policy]]; feel free to add your own suggestion :) [[User: | ::::::::::{{support|Strong Support }} I added a lot of content to the [[User:Codename Noreste/Abuse filter|policy]]; feel free to add your own suggestion :) [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 14:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::::{{oppose}} I haven't found any vandalism in the abuse filters so far. It seems unnecessary to make such a change when there is no vandalism. Therefore, I am opposing this proposal. [[User:LisafBia|LisafBia]] ([[User talk:LisafBia|talk]]) 17:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | :::::::::::{{oppose}} I haven't found any vandalism in the abuse filters so far. It seems unnecessary to make such a change when there is no vandalism. Therefore, I am opposing this proposal. [[User:LisafBia|LisafBia]] ([[User talk:LisafBia|talk]]) 17:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:I now {{oppose|withdraw my proposal and oppose}} the policy proposal upon reading the two rational oppose comments. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 21:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | :I now {{oppose|withdraw my proposal and oppose}} the policy proposal upon reading the two rational oppose comments. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 21:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
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Rather than the above: Create a <code>abusefilter-restricted</code> group, grantable and removable only by Stewards at their discretion or upon a community partial ban from the abuse filter, with rights related to modification and private filters actively revoked. This would curb abuse (such as of the guidance filter), whilst making allowance for testing. In addition, I will also propose the AbuseFilter sysop group mentioned above in this proposal too, with the modify-restricted right, grantable upon consensus of at least two stewards or of the community. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 21:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | Rather than the above: Create a <code>abusefilter-restricted</code> group, grantable and removable only by Stewards at their discretion or upon a community partial ban from the abuse filter, with rights related to modification and private filters actively revoked. This would curb abuse (such as of the guidance filter), whilst making allowance for testing. In addition, I will also propose the AbuseFilter sysop group mentioned above in this proposal too, with the modify-restricted right, grantable upon consensus of at least two stewards or of the community. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 21:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:{{ping|X|LisafBia|Dmehus|Codename Noreste|Harvici}} as participants in the RfC above. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 22:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | :{{ping|X|LisafBia|Dmehus|Codename Noreste|TheAstorPastor|label5=Harvici}} as participants in the RfC above. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 22:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::I'd support that. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 22:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ::I'd support that. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 22:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::So what will we name this group? [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 23:07, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | :::So what will we name this group? [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 23:07, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
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:That could be a good way of doing it. So you're proposing to use [[mw:Manual:$wgRevokePermissions|<code>$wgRevokePermissions</code>]] essentially, to revoke all abuse filter permissions normally granted to the <code>sysop</code> group by way of a new user group, though I'd suggest a friendly amendment, if you're amenable to it, of permitting ''view only'' access to the filter (so such partially blocked/banned users could use it to actually ''learn'' from their mistakes)? You would then propose to give access to the restricted abusefilter permissions as part of a new group? If ''so'', I'm in favour of the former, but a little lukewarm on the latter. Not necessarily ''against'' it, but also not entirely sure the ''need'', given the level of active stewards we have now and being concerned with regard to [[w:WP:HATCOLLECT|hat collecting]]. I'd be ''more'' favourable, if we added some removal criteria (i.e., unused completely in the last 30-60 days), by community revocation with a 75% net support ratio, or by consensus of two or more stewards. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 23:18, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | :That could be a good way of doing it. So you're proposing to use [[mw:Manual:$wgRevokePermissions|<code>$wgRevokePermissions</code>]] essentially, to revoke all abuse filter permissions normally granted to the <code>sysop</code> group by way of a new user group, though I'd suggest a friendly amendment, if you're amenable to it, of permitting ''view only'' access to the filter (so such partially blocked/banned users could use it to actually ''learn'' from their mistakes)? You would then propose to give access to the restricted abusefilter permissions as part of a new group? If ''so'', I'm in favour of the former, but a little lukewarm on the latter. Not necessarily ''against'' it, but also not entirely sure the ''need'', given the level of active stewards we have now and being concerned with regard to [[w:WP:HATCOLLECT|hat collecting]]. I'd be ''more'' favourable, if we added some removal criteria (i.e., unused completely in the last 30-60 days), by community revocation with a 75% net support ratio, or by consensus of two or more stewards. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 23:18, 29 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::I would support the removal criteria for the modify restricted right (or abusefilter sysop). Though I am definitely amenable to view only access for the group restricted from modification, I am also thinking of how that could be abused by a user with a certain level of knowledge. Perhaps that could be left out for now, to avoid creating 2 separate groups? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 00:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ::I would support the removal criteria for the modify restricted right (or abusefilter sysop). Though I am definitely amenable to view only access for the group restricted from modification, I am also thinking of how that could be abused by a user with a certain level of knowledge. Perhaps that could be left out for now, to avoid creating 2 separate groups? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 00:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::I propose that we create three seperate rights <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>, <code>abusefliter-restricted</code> ,<code>abusefilter-view-restricted</code> .If the crat [[ | ::I propose that we create three seperate rights <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>, <code>abusefliter-restricted</code> ,<code>abusefilter-view-restricted</code> .If the crat [[Test Wiki:Bureaucrat policy|policy]] passes then we could remove all the abusefilter rights from the sysop and bundle them into <code>abusefilter-sysop</code> which would only be granted if the user is a crat (since to become a crat they have to prove us that they are trustworthy). <code>abusefilter-restricted</code> only let the user only view the abuse filters (steward will only place this right if a user has misused the abusefilter or the user just wants to view and not edit) and <code>abusefilter-view-restricted</code> will not allow the users to even view any abuse filter (this would only be placed if the user has caused serious disruption ) [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 01:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree. I would NOT suggest removing the abuse filter modification rights from the sysop toolset, and if an admin only wants to view abuse filters, including private filters, then they should not edit said filters at all. As for the revocation of viewing abuse filters, I think you meant the revocation of viewing private filters and editing all filters, which should probably be merged to the abusefilter-restricted right. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 02:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | :::Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree. I would NOT suggest removing the abuse filter modification rights from the sysop toolset, and if an admin only wants to view abuse filters, including private filters, then they should not edit said filters at all. As for the revocation of viewing abuse filters, I think you meant the revocation of viewing private filters and editing all filters, which should probably be merged to the abusefilter-restricted right. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 02:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::::Well, then we can create one right: <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>.We would remove all the abusefilter filter-related rights (except the ability to view) from sysop toolset.All the users don't have experience with abuse filters (they can also cause disruption even in good faith), and there is no need to give them until they request <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>which would have the ability to edit the filters and it would be granted by stewards [[User: | ::::Well, then we can create one right: <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>.We would remove all the abusefilter filter-related rights (except the ability to view) from sysop toolset.All the users don't have experience with abuse filters (they can also cause disruption even in good faith), and there is no need to give them until they request <code>abusefilter-sysop</code>which would have the ability to edit the filters and it would be granted by stewards [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 13:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::::We should add some criteria for granting and removing. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 22:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC) | :::::We should add some criteria for granting and removing. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 22:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::::::Umm... removing criteria would be misuse or inactivity or both and granting can be passing a vote of community portal or steward deems the user trusted or both [[User: | ::::::Umm... removing criteria would be misuse or inactivity or both and granting can be passing a vote of community portal or steward deems the user trusted or both [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 05:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::::::Non-controversial changes to filters with restricted actions are allowed such as simplifying filters, but controversial changes such as enabling those actions on filters without determining consensus are not. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 17:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC) | :::::::Non-controversial changes to filters with restricted actions are allowed such as simplifying filters, but controversial changes such as enabling those actions on filters without determining consensus are not. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''La Suma''</span>]] 17:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::::Are we circling back to the above proposal which was pile-on opposed? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 00:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC) | :::::Are we circling back to the above proposal which was pile-on opposed? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 00:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
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==Question== | ==Question== | ||
Is thanking a user for an action related to right management considered a logged action? [[User: | Is thanking a user for an action related to right management considered a logged action? [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 12:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:I think it would show up in the log (https://testwiki.wiki/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks&user=&page=&wpdate=&tagfilter=&subtype=&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist), although not list the specific action. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 12:48, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | :I think it would show up in the log (https://testwiki.wiki/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks&user=&page=&wpdate=&tagfilter=&subtype=&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist), although not list the specific action. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 12:48, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
==New Template== | ==New Template== | ||
Hey everyone I recently created [[Template:Failed policy|a new template "Failed policy"]] which I moved from my user subpage to the template namespace.This template mainly uses the code already available on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Failed_proposal| English Wikipidea]. I think it is uncontroversial, but if you have any suggestions or concerns, please let me know. [[User: | Hey everyone I recently created [[Template:Failed policy|a new template "Failed policy"]] which I moved from my user subpage to the template namespace.This template mainly uses the code already available on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Failed_proposal| English Wikipidea]. I think it is uncontroversial, but if you have any suggestions or concerns, please let me know. [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 16:39, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:I created this template mainly for [[User: | :I created this template mainly for [[User:TheAstorPastor/Signatures|this policy]] which clearly failed but the recent nominations of policies like crat policy and abuse-filter policy was also the reason for creation of the template :) [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 16:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
==Permission revocation request and block request== | ==Permission revocation request and block request== | ||
Can anyone block me (until 5:00 UTC, May 12, 2024) as I have something important coming up and don't want to be distracted and kindly remove my permissions as well [[User: | Can anyone block me (until 5:00 UTC, May 12, 2024) as I have something important coming up and don't want to be distracted and kindly remove my permissions as well [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 15:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:{{ping|Harvici}} Done.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 16:10, 10 May 2024 (UTC) | :{{ping|Harvici}} Done.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 16:10, 10 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
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::{{ping|LisafBia}} Hello and Thank for making you're important comment on her and if a new NSS users are like to helping out to other NSS users and stewards; I like to help if i getting a chanced, I've 24/7 active on here. ~~ <span style="background-color:magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:Aviram7|<span style="color:white">αvírαm</span>]]|[[User talk:Aviram7|(tαlk)]] | ::{{ping|LisafBia}} Hello and Thank for making you're important comment on her and if a new NSS users are like to helping out to other NSS users and stewards; I like to help if i getting a chanced, I've 24/7 active on here. ~~ <span style="background-color:magenta; padding: 2px 5px 1px 5px">[[User:Aviram7|<span style="color:white">αvírαm</span>]]|[[User talk:Aviram7|(tαlk)]] | ||
:I am not a steward but I propose to grant the status for one week like my admin interface status.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 15:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | :I am not a steward but I propose to grant the status for one week like my admin interface status.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 15:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:{{oppose}} Even though there is a need for a NSS (EPIC isn't really active), I think you are relatively new to the Test Wiki and don't hold advanced positions like Sysop or Crat at other wikis (wikis that are not test wikis). [[User: | :{{oppose}} Even though there is a need for a NSS (EPIC isn't really active), I think you are relatively new to the Test Wiki and don't hold advanced positions like Sysop or Crat at other wikis (wikis that are not test wikis). [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 16:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:{{oppose}} Per Harvici and LisafBia. [[User:Jody|Jody]] ([[User talk:Jody|talk]]) 02:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | :{{oppose}} Per Harvici and LisafBia. [[User:Jody|Jody]] ([[User talk:Jody|talk]]) 02:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::{{Neutral}}. Per Harvici and LisafBia. I know Aviram7 is a trusted and active user, but I think we've enough NSS. [[User:Wüstenspringmaus|<span style="color:grey;font-family:Comic Sans MS">Wüstenspringmaus</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Wüstenspringmaus|''talk'']]</sub> 06:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ::{{Neutral}}. Per Harvici and LisafBia. I know Aviram7 is a trusted and active user, but I think we've enough NSS. [[User:Wüstenspringmaus|<span style="color:grey;font-family:Comic Sans MS">Wüstenspringmaus</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Wüstenspringmaus|''talk'']]</sub> 06:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
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==A newsletter?== | ==A newsletter?== | ||
What do you all think about creating a newsletter that tells you what changes have been made in terms of policies and technical changes and how many new users have been given crat and sysop rights (technically Wikipidea's administrator Newsletter)? [[User: | What do you all think about creating a newsletter that tells you what changes have been made in terms of policies and technical changes and how many new users have been given crat and sysop rights (technically Wikipidea's administrator Newsletter)? [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 16:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:{{support}}. I think, that would be a good idea. [[User:Wüstenspringmaus|<span style="color:grey;font-family:Comic Sans MS">Wüstenspringmaus</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Wüstenspringmaus|''talk'']]</sub> 06:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | :{{support}}. I think, that would be a good idea. [[User:Wüstenspringmaus|<span style="color:grey;font-family:Comic Sans MS">Wüstenspringmaus</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Wüstenspringmaus|''talk'']]</sub> 06:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
==Question== | ==Question== | ||
Is the "pywikibot" directory uploaded to the server? [[User: | Is the "pywikibot" directory uploaded to the server? [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 15:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:And is it possible to get shell access? [[User: | :And is it possible to get shell access? [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 15:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::{{ping|Harvici}} No.But you can use https://hub-paws.wmcloud.org/ for testing pwb.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 09:14, 15 May 2024 (UTC) | ::{{ping|Harvici}} No.But you can use https://hub-paws.wmcloud.org/ for testing pwb.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 09:14, 15 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
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*[Yes] I agree that I am entirely responsible for all actions done under this account, including actions performed under this account by someone other than myself. | *[Yes] I agree that I am entirely responsible for all actions done under this account, including actions performed under this account by someone other than myself. | ||
*[Yes] I agree that if I misuse the tools, my access might be revoked and I may be banned from Test Wiki without prior warning. | *[Yes] I agree that if I misuse the tools, my access might be revoked and I may be banned from Test Wiki without prior warning. | ||
'''Other comments''':I am requesting this right to import few gadgets from other wikis and write some gadgets on own.I have experience in Java,Python, a little bit of CSS, and some in JS. I am also testing a bot, which I will include to TestWiki on successful runs, as well as writing scripts for a bot on discord with [[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] [[User: | '''Other comments''':I am requesting this right to import few gadgets from other wikis and write some gadgets on own.I have experience in Java,Python, a little bit of CSS, and some in JS. I am also testing a bot, which I will include to TestWiki on successful runs, as well as writing scripts for a bot on discord with [[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 17:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:I can confirm Harvici have the competence for this role.He is dev with me a discord bot to possibly be deployed on the wiki test discord.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 17:26, 16 May 2024 (UTC) | :I can confirm Harvici have the competence for this role.He is dev with me a discord bot to possibly be deployed on the wiki test discord.[[User:DodoMan|DodoMan]] ([[User talk:DodoMan|talk]]) 17:26, 16 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:@[[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]],[[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]],[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]], pinging so they can review my request [[User: | :@[[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]],[[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]],[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]], pinging so they can review my request [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 14:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::{{on hold|Granted on probation}}. This just means that the right may be removed upon request by any [[Test Wiki:Bureaucrats|bureaucrat in good standing]]. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 20:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC) | ::{{on hold|Granted on probation}}. This just means that the right may be removed upon request by any [[Test Wiki:Bureaucrats|bureaucrat in good standing]]. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 20:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::Thank you! [[User: | :::Thank you! [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 01:56, 18 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
==[[TW:BP|Crat policy]]== | ==[[TW:BP|Crat policy]]== | ||
Recently [[User:Aviram7|Aviram7]] granted bureaucrat rights to his friend [[User:Rohit|Rohit]], but I removed it as it was a violation of the bureaucrat policy.Aviram7 is a trusted user with advanced rights like IA, and since he knew Rohit personally , I don't think there would be any disruption. Currently, the policy states that a {{tq|Steward may exempt a user they deem trustworthy from the above requirements}} and I propose that it should be changed to {{tq|A steward or a bureaucrat, as applicable, may exempt a user they deem trustworthy from the above requirements.}} [[User: | Recently [[User:Aviram7|Aviram7]] granted bureaucrat rights to his friend [[User:Rohit|Rohit]], but I removed it as it was a violation of the bureaucrat policy.Aviram7 is a trusted user with advanced rights like IA, and since he knew Rohit personally , I don't think there would be any disruption. Currently, the policy states that a {{tq|Steward may exempt a user they deem trustworthy from the above requirements}} and I propose that it should be changed to {{tq|A steward or a bureaucrat, as applicable, may exempt a user they deem trustworthy from the above requirements.}} [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 17:51, 18 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
==Rename request== | ==Rename request== | ||
Can my name be changed to "TheAstorPastor" as I adopted this name at Wikimedia projects and I plan to do so at Miraheze and similarly [[User:Harvicibot|Harvicibot]] to APBOT [[User: | Can my name be changed to "TheAstorPastor" as I adopted this name at Wikimedia projects and I plan to do so at Miraheze and similarly [[User:Harvicibot|Harvicibot]] to APBOT [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 17:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
:@[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]],@[[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] [[User: | :@[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]],@[[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] [[User:TheAstorPastor|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#CC4E5C ; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">Harvici</span>]] ([[User talk:TheAstorPastor|<span style="color:#228B22">''talk''</span>]]) 16:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::Done. Greetings, [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] ([[User talk:Drummingman|talk]]) 17:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC) | ::Done. Greetings, [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] ([[User talk:Drummingman|talk]]) 17:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC) | ||