Difference between revisions of "User talk:BlackWidowMovie0"

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:: It was not block evasion, but that was sockpuppetry. Given that you were involved in a number of disputes, were denied bureaucrat permissions by several crats here, and were close to losing your sysop permissions, that account was a clear attempt to avoid scruntiny. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 
:: It was not block evasion, but that was sockpuppetry. Given that you were involved in a number of disputes, were denied bureaucrat permissions by several crats here, and were close to losing your sysop permissions, that account was a clear attempt to avoid scruntiny. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 
:: The purpose of this wiki is for testing. Advanced permissions granted for the purpose of testing said permissions. The purpose of this wiki is not to gain rights or for hat collectors. If your goal here is to become a bureaucrat, you may be best looking somewhere else. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 
:: The purpose of this wiki is for testing. Advanced permissions granted for the purpose of testing said permissions. The purpose of this wiki is not to gain rights or for hat collectors. If your goal here is to become a bureaucrat, you may be best looking somewhere else. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 +
:::{{ping|Naleksuh}} My goal is to get the 'crat right so I can test the advanced tools on there that sysop perms cannot. [[User:BlackWidowMovie0|BlackWidowMovie0]] ([[User talk:BlackWidowMovie0|talk]]) 19:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:15, 11 December 2020

@Naleksuh, Fast, Justarandomamerican, and MacFan4000: I am retiring this account on TestWiki. I have reasons, which I will reveal to users on a limited basis. Ping me on Discord or IRC and I will respond.

Advice

Hello,

Thought I'd let you know that marking userpages like you did with DanieleHentze is unnecessary busywork, and may even be counter-productive. Anyone can look at the block log entry and quickly determine why the block was placed.

I would also add that you have made some edits to internal testwiki namespace items, while this is not inherently a problem some caution is advised. Since your edit to the request permissions preload was redundant and also potentially confusing I have removed it. I'm also probably going to substantially modify your edit to the header as sub-optimal, although I can understand what you were trying to accomplish in all these instances. I don't want to be too harsh in my criticism since it seems you are trying to help, but ultimately the changes were not a net benefit.

If you are interested in helping out with internal things an easy place to start would be by patrolling Special:AbuseLog every so often. Like many wikis this one is frequented by spambots that need to be blocked, but the edit filter also sometimes prevents good-faith and productive edits. All you have to do is check new entries, currently the details button is not working (should be fixed soon) but the examine one is. If it's a spambot block it; if the edit is in good faith help them make it and direct them to the request for permissions page. If you have any questions check recent changes to see who's currently around and politely ask them on their talk page, best of luck and have fun testing. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 21:37, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Adding to the above, you appear to be trying to replicate the procedure used on a different wiki at UserWiki:Sourav Halder, while this is fine in abstract it would be better if you created your own test accounts (clearly marked as such) and tested on those instead. Since it's the userspace of a long departed and blocked user I'll leave it alone for now since testing there isn't really harmful, but please do use your own test accounts in the future, thank you. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 22:37, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast: Ok, thanks for the notice! BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 22:46, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Nominations (steward, sysadmin, etc.)

First I'd like to say that I appreciate the vote of confidence, and I wish I did have more time to help other people out. That said best practice with nominations is usually to reach out to the user you're nominating to see if they're up for it before doing so. Culture varies wiki-by-wiki and there may be some where it is acceptable, or even normal to nominate without asking first but not in the majority of ones I'm familiar with.

So I'd like to reiterate something I said earlier which is to slow down, read a lot, and get a feel for the local culture before diving into internal things you haven't done before (i.e. outside of mainspace). There is a saying on the internet applicable not just to wikis but online communities in general that goes "Lurk moar, it's ever enough" not literally true of course, but the basic idea is accurate and having a solid grasp of the local cultural norms will go a long way towards helping you cooperate well with others whatever website you're on.

In that same vein, maybe you can be a a little less aggressive in archiving things; this is a slow moving wiki, it may take up to 30 days for everyone to drop by and see something on the community portal and the "Main Page error?" discussion was not resolved in full, I won't unarchive anything in this case since that discussion is redundant to one taking place on Talk:Main Page and the only other recent discussions were resolved, but in the future just try to keep that sort of thing in mind, it almost never hurts whenever your unsure to ask others how they feel about something and go from there.

Anyway, I know all your actions were made in good-faith and you're trying to help out; one of the wonderful things about wikis is that they're very forgiving of mistakes since almost nothing is truly irreversible, so it's not a big deal I withdrew the nom, took me all of 60 seconds nothing to worry about. So have fun, don't be afraid to ask for help from other users, and if you see a spambot go ahead and block it, Best Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 20:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

@Fast: Ok. One thing. I'm not seeing the sockpuppet relation with the IP you blocked. I'm going to allow him to edit his talk page if he wants to appeal, as I'm not sure of the relation. Can you explain as fast as possible, and I'll put it back, but meanwhile, kind of want to let up, as I'm not seeing it. Thanks! BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 02:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Please see Special:AbuseFilter/examine/log/1870, that is in fact why I emended the block log entry to indicate "(see abuse log"). Note that while it's often not necessary to revoke TPA even for prolific cross-wiki sockmasters as appears to be the case here, in this circumstance it would have been pointless to block the user without revoking TPA as they attempted to vandalize their own talk page, Best Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast: Do you have IRC? If so, can you enter #testadminwiki and then DM me? BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 19:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
I do use IRC on occasion, not so far relating to this wiki. I don't think I'll have time for extended conversation soon, and I prefer to keep wiki related discussion on wiki, but if there is a (really) good reason, I'll consider it. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 20:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Your recent actions

Unfortunately I'm going to have to reverse some of your actions, but first I'll go thru and explain why.

Blocks

The biggest issue is your blocks. I'm not sure why you unblocked ReaganGirardin, I assume as a test? Anyway I've gone ahead and reblocked. Likewise I'm unsure why you unblocked Q8j-3, since it's not your test account; you are of course free to block and unblock your own test accounts so long as you don't clutter the block log too much, but leave the test accounts of others alone. 67.168.231.23 is a problem and may along with some other IP ranges associated with the sockmaster have to be given long-hard blocks in the future, but as a general rule of thumb indefinite IP blocks are a bad idea, since DHCP leases eventually expire and the IP moves on to a new user, granting some static IPs may stick for months or even years. But in this case a brief spurt of disruption is not enough to justify anything really long-term, hopefully they've gotten bored with this wiki but if not it takes all of 30 seconds to reblock it. In addition undoing autoblocks like "unblocked #3101" is rarely necessary, if you really want to test with that then ask me about it, but for now just leave it alone. The other issue is that some of your tests clutter the block log unnecessarily, strings like

17:15, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block blocked StefanieLithgow talk contribs with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Spam: for more information see abuse log) (unblock | change block) Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:15, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block unblocked StefanieLithgow talk contribs Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:15, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block unblocked StefanieLithgow talk contribs Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:15, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block blocked EarthaRag077655 talk contribs with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Spam: for more information see abuse log) (unblock | change block) Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:14, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block unblocked EarthaRag077655 talk contribs Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:14, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block unblocked EarthaRag077655 talk contribs Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:14, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block unblocked EarthaRag077655 talk contribs Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit
 17:14, 8 December 2020 BlackWidowMovie0 talk contribs block blocked EarthaRag077655 talk contribs with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Spam: for more information see abuse log) (unblock | change block) Tags: Mobile web edit Mobile edit

should really only happen if you are blocking example, blocking yourself, or blocking a test account you created (clearly marked as such).

Your block of ᗡ; while defensible should have been proceeded by a warning first, granting I probably should have cautioned them earlier, and they really should have taken the hint from a steward, even with all that the reason for the block should've been disruption and misusing this site as a webhost for free online file storage, not inserting gibberish, as the content is meaningful, just not in english.

Finally your block of JJPMaster was flatly wrong, we can talk about identifying sockpuppets in the future both technically and behaviorally, but the evidence you used, "confrontational user," is completely inadequate and you really should apologize.

tl;dr

  1. Confine your test blocks to test accounts
  2. Don't indefinitely block IP addresses or block them for an unreasonably long time.
  3. Don't reverse autoblocks unless it's a test or you know what you are doing
  4. Don't mess with the test accounts of other users
  5. Don't unblock spambots

User rights

You have recently been removing user rights from others as redundant; while not inherently a problem it is not neccessary and can come across as rude. The best thing to do is to leave them a message explaining the user rights are redundant. If they remove them fine, but if not move on; it doesn't cause any harm and some people just like having a long list of rights after their name, doesn't make any sense to me but some things aren't worth wasting time over.

Request permissions

There's no need to immediately jump in and tell someone they need to wait for a crat. They already know that, this just clutters the page without accomplishing anything useful. The only time it's helpful to chime in like that is when it's been an unusually long time, say 24 hours since the request, in that case adding a helpful note that no crats are currently available helps them understand the reason for the delay.

In sum

Your making some mistakes that create additional work for others. There's nothing wrong with an occasional error, mistakes happen and everyone no matter how experienced makes them. However higher error rates are disruptive due to the work created for others, and your rate is high enough that it will likely be sometime before others are comfortable granting you additional rights, so use this as a learning opportunity, and don't be afraid to ask others before taking action, you already did that once and because of that you didn't mistakenly delete a sandbox, that was good and you should continue to ask before acting when doing something you're not too sure about in the future, best Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Fast: His justification for unblocking certain accounts is that there were multiple blocks stacked up over each other and he was attempting to fix that (see logs). However I am not sure why he decided to *only* remove the blocks and not reblock. But regardless the main message is clear here with multiple disruptions. Naleksuh (talk) 21:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
@Naleksuh: Thanks, I didn't see that so it all makes a bit more sense, still should've been re-blocked. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 21:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast and Naleksuh: Apparently I forgot to reblock them after unblocking. I could've sworn I did........anyway, I removed the user rights because it is redundant, I didn't realize it was rude. For the RfP, I have no clue why I did that. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 21:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Alright, like I said it's a learning opportunity, errors happen just be sure not to repeat them. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 21:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Best of luck to you

Hope this was a good learning opportunity and you had fun, try to make use of the knowledge you got elsewhere (but be sure to appeal your blocks rather than evading them where needed) and do try to read a little more and get acclimated with the local culture before diving into things in the future, Best Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 19:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@Fast: I am willing to share why I retired this account, if you can create an IRC and join #testadminwiki, I'd be happy to explain. It's not hard to create an account here, I want to explain. Thanks! BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 20:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Why are you not able to post on-wiki? Naleksuh (talk) 20:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@Naleksuh and Fast: There are several reasons. I am also open to explaining it to you, but only on IRC or Discord. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
That's fine you don't owe me an explanation. That said if I remember I'll try to drop by on IRC this weekend when I'm less busy in case you want to get something off your chest, and you can tell me as much or as little as you want. Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 21:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast: There's really no point trying to start over anymore. I was trying for a fresh start on this wiki, as people didn't trust me. A user screwed it, and now I'm sad. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
There's a quote I'd like to share with you

It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence, to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words: "And this, too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!

So however sad you are just remember this too shall pass.
Being excluding from a community you enjoy being a part of sucks. Believe it or not I'm still fairly new to the helping maintain a wiki business, but I've been doing forum moderation for some time and I've seen many people take it hard when they're excluded, or even when they get muted by just a few others. What I can say is that even in these times you can't let the online world become the whole of your life, and you can't let your self-worth be defined by what other random people on the internet think of you, and your certainly can't let it be decided by what flags your accounts have on various websites, its silly, and not worth the stress. So log off relax, go watch a netflix marathon whatever you have to do to decompress and take care of yourself.
I have mixed feelings on the whole clean start thing myself, online communities run to some degree on trust, and clandestine reincarnations can undermine that trust. However, I also feel that forgive and forget is a truly important principle, and sometimes a clean start really is best for everyone all around. And the truth is that in some communities no one cares how many accounts you have, even if there all logged on at once, others don't even have user accounts at all; after all logins are evil, and for yet others while you can create an account if you want to almost no one does (thinking of the various chans here). And for wikis the thing is everyone is ultimately coming together for barn-raising, as a group we can all build something none of us could've built on our own, and what's important is that the barn gets built not who built it.
So I'm starting to ramble, but if the communities you want to be a part of don't allow clean starts then don't. Just go back openly, apologize, explain what you did wrong, and see if you can find a way forward, yes it sucks to have a bunch of people say you're a disruptive user, but ignore them, use your emotions constructively to prove everyone wrong by being the best barn-builder out there; grow and learn from your mistakes.
But some places won't allow you back no matter what, many small-wikis and forums (not to mention some of the large ones) are run by the pettiest tyrants imaginable, others will allow you back only with silly and unreasonable demands, if that's the case fuck'em; just walk-away, your self-worth does not depend on their opinions, and frankly the community probably wasn't worth being part of anyway, so go find somewhere else to hang-out because most likely none of them were your friends in the first place.
Anyway I don't care about what you did in the distant past, I care what you are doing now. Maybe you did vandalize a bunch of pages 'for teh lulz', a while back are you going to do it again? No. Well then who cares?
Anyway, I know your still struggling to learn some things but from your limited time here your overall trajectory is positive, so take some time off, go for run, make it double, decide what you are going to do, and try to keep things in perspective, these are all really just fun online group projects you can't take them too seriously, Best Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 23:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast: You're gonna hate me for this, but TL;DR. JUST KIDDING! I appreciate that. I've had some similar experiences to that myself, it's actually what brought me to Miraheze. I will take another swing at trying to be good here, and would ask for the admin flag back and a full startover. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 00:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to decline a resysop. You were supposed to be here under a one-strike policy, and you already certainly had more than that. You were close to losing sysop permisssions already before removing them yourself. I'm also not sure what you were "kidding" about but it seems like an attempt to deceive Fast which does not help either Naleksuh (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
@Naleksuh: I am not trying to deceive Fast, I swear. And with the message Fast posted, I'd like to start here free from rules that no one else has. No One strike, nothing. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 10:29, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
It's fine, I don't hate you, I don't even really feel any irritation. Granted I'm pretty hard to perturb these days, even outright spammers and trolls don't bother me, their motivations are easily understandable, and dealing with them is straightforward. I have sometimes been a tad irritated when dealing with people who have both big upsides and big downsides, like someone who is a strong subject matter expert and insightful commenter but also an occasional dramamonger and thread derailer. In cases like that maximizing value for everyone involves considerable extra work separating and merging discussions, moving things from public to private etc, but even then at most it'll get a brief sigh out of me.
No I'm mildly puzzled. When I first read your comment about a failed fresh start that got screwed I assumed you were referring to this account as a fresh start away from fandom, miraheze, wikimedia, et al. It didn't even occur to me that you would make a sockpuppet here, because creating another account here doesn't make much sense. This wiki is for testing, so if you're not testing yourself then you are facilitating testing for others so they can learn how to build things, and I'm not really sure how you would be significantly hampered in either by others checking in on your contributions, or by the lack of a crat flag; the number of additional tools isn't that large and the functionality is similar. But I can be dense from time-to-time as evidenced by the foregoing so maybe there's something I'm missing.
Unfortunately, and don't take this the wrong way, I will have to rescind my earlier offer to chat Saturday. Informing people in a private forum that you are going to violate community rules or even hinting at it is incredibly unfair to the people you invited there as it puts them in a bind. There is an implicit understanding when someone comes to you in confidence for privacy, that it should be respected, you don't betray people's trust. However if you are in a position to prevent a violation of the community standards that you are responsible for upholding you have a duty to do so as well, you don't betray the community's trust. The best resolution to that conundrum varies on a case by case bases, sometimes it's really easy, but sometimes it's incredibly complex, and you really should avoid putting people in that situation outside of extraordinary circumstances. In fact as I mentioned earlier conversations about wiki related things should almost always stay on wiki, unless privacy is paramount.
So earlier I said your trajectory looked positive, I'm not so sure of that now. However, you're not blocked, so if you still want to experiment with things you don't need tools for you're good-to-go. As for one-strike, you were given considerably more than one-strike, and again not trying to rub in any salt here, but even if this were the first wiki you'd edited on ever, you would have been in rather hot water. And again I'm just trying to keep it real here.
So I feel like everyone is owed a path forward, however narrow, so my question is this: What do you want to accomplish here? Is it something that requires certain flags on your account? So far all you've said is you don't want any restrictions, but if that really is all you want then you have a zillion independent wikis to choose from, some don't even have accounts, no restrictions for anyone. So again, why here? If you help everyone else understand your desired end state then maybe we can come up with something to get you there. Best, Fast - ZoomZoom (talk) 04:20, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
@Fast: Technically, it's not a sockpuppet, as I wasn't blocked here. I'd like to be able to get the bureaucrat right, that's what I'm trying to accomplish here. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 16:37, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
It was not block evasion, but that was sockpuppetry. Given that you were involved in a number of disputes, were denied bureaucrat permissions by several crats here, and were close to losing your sysop permissions, that account was a clear attempt to avoid scruntiny. Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
The purpose of this wiki is for testing. Advanced permissions granted for the purpose of testing said permissions. The purpose of this wiki is not to gain rights or for hat collectors. If your goal here is to become a bureaucrat, you may be best looking somewhere else. Naleksuh (talk) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
@Naleksuh: My goal is to get the 'crat right so I can test the advanced tools on there that sysop perms cannot. BlackWidowMovie0 (talk) 19:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)