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| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it</b>. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.''</div> | | :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it</b>. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.''</div> |
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| ==Alternate proposal: Merging CheckUser and oversight to steward==
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| Hello community! I’d like to propose an alternative to the proposal above about merging the rights. Here’s what I’d propose:
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| *Stewards are granted the suppression-log, view suppressed, and CheckUser-log rights for accountability;
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| *The CheckUser and Suppressor groups remain existent and aren’t removed;
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| This would allow for accountability amongst stewards and still allow non/stewards to be granted those rights if absolutely necessary. [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 15:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{support}} - That seems like a good and better proposal, which is why I withdrew my proposal. [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] ([[User talk:Drummingman|talk]]) 15:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{Support}} [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 15:28, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{support}} as proposer. [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 20:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{oppose}} viewsuppressed as it poses a confidentiality risk, {{support}} the rest. [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]] ([[User talk:Zippybonzo|talk]]) 07:14, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Could you elaborate what you mean by “confidentiality risk”? @[[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] requested I add “view suppressed” to list via Discord, so you may want to discuss with him. [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 11:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :::The reason I want to include view suppressed is that the logs already show a (partially) suppressed version, but to check each other properly you need view suppressed, and otherwise you have to add suppression yourself. The rest has to do with trusting the stewards to keep suppressed versions secret, which hopefully is already the case. [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] ([[User talk:Drummingman|talk]]) 13:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::What's wrong with adding the rights in that case? I don't view that as a significant imposition, and it aids public and community transparency. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 16:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::I don't think you should be able to just view suppressed revisions without the community knowing. [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]] ([[User talk:Zippybonzo|talk]]) 10:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{support}}: per proposer. Whether non-stewards should be granted CU or SU is a question I will pose in another proposal if this one succeeds. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 13:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{Oppose}} per [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]]. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 16:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| ::So would you support it without view suppressed? [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 16:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :::Yes. There does seem to be unanimous [[w:WP:CON|consensus]] here to at least <code>checkuser-log</code> being added. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 22:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :{{Neutral}} - CU and SU practice for bureaucrats are optional, but I don't mind with CU and SU remain existent and not removed and steward having the CU and SU rights. [[User:Tailsultimatefan3891|Tailsultimatefan3891]] ([[User talk:Tailsultimatefan3891|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Tailsultimatefan3891|contribs]]) ([[Special:UserRights/Tailsultimatefan3891|rights]]) ([[Special:Block/Tailsultimatefan3891|block]]) 23:47, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| ===Possible close?===
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| [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]], [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]], [[User:X|X]], [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]], [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]], and [[User:Tailsultimatefan3891|Tailsultimatefan3891]], I'm involved, and though I am fairly certain there would be no objections to me closing in this way, I thought I'd {{tl|ping}} you all here to receive your assent to this being closed as follows, as '''successful''' with '''<code>checkuser-log</code> added to the <code>[[Test Wiki:Stewards|steward]]</code>''' group and all other user groups remaining the same? [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 21:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| <!--- Sign below this line if supportive --->
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| :I agree. [[User:Drummingman|Drummingman]] ([[User talk:Drummingman|talk]]) 22:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :I agree [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]] ([[User talk:Zippybonzo|talk]]) 05:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :I agree. [[User:AlPaD|AlPaD]] ([[User talk:AlPaD|talk]]) 15:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
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| :Filed pull request. So {{partially done}} [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]] ([[User talk:Zippybonzo|talk]]) 13:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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| ====Support proposed close and involved closure====
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| *
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| <!--- Sign below this line if not supportive --->
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| ====Object to proposed close====
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| *I don’t see why suppression log cannot be added too, given that there was no opposition to that. [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 21:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *I'm confused. Why exactly would that be the only right added, given the fact that the only possible opposition to <code> suppression-log </code> is confusing as a (full?) opposition based on a partial opposition? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 21:55, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *:[[User:X|X]] and [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]], I've refreshed my memory on what Test Wiki's [[Special:Log/suppress]] displays, which is what would be viewable if that user right were added to the <code>[[Test Wiki:Stewards|steward]]</code> user group. For all or most pages in <code>(Main)</code> namespace or most other namespaces, there is little PII leakage. Similarly, there is also little to no PII leakage when secretly changing specific revisions to a page. However, the issue I suspected existed, which is what I think [[User:Zippybonzo|Zippybonzo]] was alluding to in his !vote argument is for pages within <code>User:</code> and <code>User talk:</code> namespaces. Specifically, on pages where a user inadvertently edited while logged lout or where they created an IP user/user talk page instead of their own user/user talk page. If this user right were added, it would be very easy to associate the likely page creator/editor to the likely IP address. I realize Stewards are trusted by the community, but on the same hand, I also feel like it's a lot of information that could be gleaned without having to add one's [[Test Wiki:CheckUser|CheckUser]] hat. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 22:13, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *::You really shouldn’t be considering your own opinions/interpretations when closing. ZippyBonzo only said they opposed adding the “view-suppressed”. There is full support for adding the other 2. [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 22:21, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *:::That's why I am proposing this for discussion on a possible close, given the stated opposition and neutral comment from Tailsultimatefan3891. It's also possible others may re-consider their views. I would not close this until there is unanimity in the proposed close. :) [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 22:26, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *::::Definitely. Let's wait and see for a couple days then, shall we? [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 22:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *:::::Agreed. :) [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 22:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *::I still object on the grounds that that's not what consensus was, as X said. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 22:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *:::On a strict nose count, yes, I agree there is majority support for the original proposal, but not necessarily consensus given the ~60% net support ratio. It would be better to have a clearer consensus. This was proposed as an alternative, but happy to consider other alternatives? [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 22:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *::::Yeah, there’s a 60% overall support, but full support for adding the CheckUser and suppression log rights. Not sure why you would go against full community consensus like this… [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 22:31, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| *::::A support ratio alone isn't enough to determine consensus here, as the lone neutral !voter was more like an abstention: They said nothing to imply that they even had an opinion. I agree with waiting, however. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 22:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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| ==Requests for stewardship X== | | ==Requests for stewardship X== |
