Test Wiki:Community portal

The community portal is Test Wiki's village pump and noticeboards, two-in-one.
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UserRightsManager

The name of the userRightsManager gadget has changed, so some users may have the tick turned off. It may be necessary to re-enable it in the preferences. LisafBia (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

We encourage bureaucrats, if you have last edited before June 2024, to re-enable its preferences. This user  supports this decision. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 20:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Systemadministrator

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

 Not done, per strong opposition. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 16:20, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

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@MacFan4000: I would want to say that LisafBia, the two stewards (Drummingman and Justarandomamerican), and I, indicate that I voted, and all votes are oppose (formerly my vote was a neutral, but changed to oppose regarding most people's concerns). MacFan4000, you may have to close as unsuccessful. @Justman10000: If you have any further questions regarding this or want to vote on yourself, please state your questions below the votes in the "Questions by the candidate" section or take place of your vote here before MacFan4000 is closing it. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 20:26, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

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I would like to be a system administrator so that I can also support at system configuration level... In addition to managing permissions, I would also keep the software, extensions and skins up to date and optimise the configurations!

It would be really nice to get a chance 🙂 Justman10000 (talk) 16:28, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Did you know how to use Git, PHP, and SSH, and you are active on this wiki? Please see Project:System administrators. Also, it would be really nice for you to be a system administrator if you know understanding of Apache and a server (MariaDB/MySQL/PostgreSQL/SQLite). Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 17:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I already work with Linux Debian since 4 years! So yes 🙂 Justman10000 (talk) 17:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Are you aware that this very high trust permission can cause great damage if it's improperly used? Codename Noreste 🤔 La Suma 17:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I am aware of this! Yes Justman10000 (talk) 17:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

So, voting by the two stewards and by some users is required. If the votes are successful, then it goes to the system administrator to grant the permission or not. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 17:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

The votes are all oppose that it is likely to be unsuccessful. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2024 (UTC) (sorry for the late signing)

Voting

Oppose

•  Weak Oppose Hi, thanks for volunteering. Unfortunately, I must weakly oppose your request at this time due to lack of necessary trust or track record. I do not think you would take the site down, abuse your power in some other way, or go inactive suddenly, but you do not hold Stewardship here or administratorship elsewhere, and you don't have that long of a track record, so I cannot be sure. Consider this a moral support of sorts; I have no objection to another run in the medium-term future. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:32, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Like I said, I'd be happy to get a chance, and if you don't think I would abuse my power (which I wouldn't too), then what's the problem? Justman10000 (talk) 17:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  This permission is very powerful, can lock the database and have access to PHP, SSH, Git, and Github and even Apache and the server (MariaDB/MySQL/PostgreSQL/SQLite). Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 17:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  System administratorship is a very powerful position. I prefer to err on the side of caution. Can you describe your previous experience with FiveM and Minecraft servers? Do you have PHP experience? Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:48, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  For the networks, I installed and configured web applications and Minecraft plugins Justman10000 (talk) 17:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Please refer to the following questions:

  • Do you have PHP experience?
  • Do you have SSH experience?
  • Do you have Git/Github experience?
  • To make it easier, it is recommended to use MariaDB, MySQL, SQLite, or PostgreSQL server and use Apache. Do you have experience and understanding of that?

  Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 01:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Yes
  • Yes
  • Yes
  • I have already used all of the mentioned database systems early, so... yes

  Justman10000 (talk) 05:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Oppose Hi, nice that you signed up and want to get more involved, I can only appreciate that. But unfortunately, here and for this reason, I want to cast my dissenting vote. I am very reluctant to assign this role to someone I don't know well. Anyway, are you already a system administrator, steward or admin on a major wiki project somewhere? On a Wikimedia, Miraheze or other large wikifarm. On these wikis, you become one only after a thorough review and vote. To me, that is a hard requirement for a system administrator. SA has the unlimited power to shut down an entire wiki (database lock and unlock) block anyone and deny or grant anyone user rights. Therefore, this right can only be granted to highly trusted users. Of course, this is separate from the technical side, which is also important. Drummingman (talk) 17:48, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Of course, yes, I agree. I absolutely vote and agree on  Oppose but I gave the very strong oppose, biggest, strongest, ever. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 01:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Strongly oppose It doesn't make much sense to give a user who has been a member for less than 1 month a higher level of authority than even the stewards such as the system administrator. You need to have 3 or more months of activity history. LisafBia (talk) 18:14, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Nowhere does it say anything about that... So... And is it so difficult to give someone a chance? It's not really motivating Justman10000 (talk) 18:25, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  See what the text LisafBia and the 2 stewards said, plus the vote from me right below. Not satisfying and broken trust. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 20:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Strongly, very strong, extreme, intense, super, mega, kilo, peta, peta, tera, tera, mega, mega, very strong, strongly, bigger, longer, and absolute oppose that is the biggest, longest, and strongest oppose that I will ever give Seriously?!? This user has no long history, new to this wiki, despite knowing PHP, SSH, and Git and needs more experience with Apache and a server (PostgreSQL, MariaDB, MySQL, SQLite). System administrator is a very powerful right, even more than interface administrator and especially intended to be more powerful than regular stewards, including grant or revocate anyone user rights, disable OAuth for a user, locking the database and have access to PHP, site-sensitive files, SSH, and Git as well as the server such as MySQL, MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and SQLite and Apache. They'll have access to DefaultSettings.php, LocalSettings.php, and NoLocalSettings.php. This right is extremely powerful. I hope this will be absolutely rejected. You'll hear no complaints from me. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 20:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
•  Strong oppose per Drummingman and Justarandomamerican; Justaman10000 joined on test wiki sice 28 May 2024 (7 days) and I don't think they are really eligible for system administrator privileges for at this time and I don't think they are currently fulfill system admin's requirements. Happy testing ~~ínfínítу • [@píng mє] 03:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  Do I speak Turkish when I say it would be nice to get a Chance? Justman10000 (talk) 14:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

  Hey there, now you aren't being nice.Just to be clear and make you familiar with the community, the steward/system administrator is equivalent to a sysop, crat, or steward on Wikimedia or on big Wiki farms like Miraheze.You can't just go on those wikis and, in 7 days, request advanced rights.You need to build up a proper reputation here. In addition to it being a test wiki, we limit the testing rights to Sysop and Crat Bit.So I think you should try to spend more time here. :) The AP (talk) 14:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000: No! You are didn't talk me in Turkish languages but you have joined 7 days ago before on Test Wiki, so, I don't think now you're eligible for system administrator privileges because this permission is very high level trusted privileges on in test wiki and I don't seem you're demonstrated with SSL, php and MariaDB, MySQL, SQLite, or PostgreSQL server and use Apache and others, I suggest to you please spent a long time (1 year or 3 years) on test wiki; I think you try to Hat collecting on here, so, I fully Strong oppose for this permission. Happy testing ~~ínfínítу • [@píng mє] 15:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

• Neutral Used Linux Debian and may be trusted, but I don't know if completely trusted.Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 17:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  I would be! I have already system-administered around 20 Minecraft and FiveM networks! Sure, this has nothing to do with MediaWiki itself, but it's about the principle! As I said, I would be happy to get a chance Justman10000 (talk) 17:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Possibly some enhanced trust would be needed. Try to think when you become a system administrator. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 17:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

  Vote since changed. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 20:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Questions by the candidate

What is actually so damn hard to understand about the sentence, It would be really nice to get a chance? If you're only ever rejected, there comes a day when you don't want to do anything anywhere! Just give it a damn chance and let someone prove themselves... Is that so hard?

It is the unlimited power, yes! But that way I could have proved myself directly! It's extremely unmotivating to first have to do what I know how many weeks or even months of preparatory work, only to probably be rejected again! --Justman10000 (talk) 05:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey there, I understand that it may be frustrating to you that you aren't getting a chance to be a system administrator, but this isn't the case for you alone. @Justarandomamerican had his request for stewardship denied once and withdrawn also.@LisafBia also had their request denied.I suggest you mingle with the community and try to spend more time here.Then, if you gain a fair position in the community, I will nominate you myself. The AP (talk) 06:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Inactivity for AFAs

Should inactivity for AFAs be measured in regular terms, or should it be measured by the last time an abuse filter was modified by an AFA, or perhaps even the last time a filter was modified to use a restricted action or a restricted filter was modified? I'd like to know consensus on this before I go and modify the inactivity policy. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I would choose when the last time some AFA modified a regular abuse filter (without restricted actions). Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 02:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

We don't have a bot for it yet? That checks for inactivity? Justman10000 (talk) 16:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Nope. It's a manual process. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Would be at least 3 months at least I can suggest. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 12:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Request for System administratorship

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This request is  successful. MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 18:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

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Hello. I've been a Steward for around a solid year. I've also been involved in the behind the scenes technical stuff such as Phorge/Phabricator and GitHub for a while, writing requests and pull requests. I have basic technical knowledge as described in Test Wiki:System administrators. I think having an extra system administrator would speed things along on Phabricator, along with ensuring that there's a backup when MacFan4000 is busy. Feel free to ask any questions. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

•  Support - You have been a steward with us for almost 1 year. This has given you the confidence to handle sensitive matters. You have also shown yourself to be a good steward. After all, we really need more System Administrators. Drummingman (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support per Drummingman Gepard _talk 16:50, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support Trusted user. I wish the candidate luck with MediaWiki and other technical tools. LisafBia (talk) 17:00, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support with no objections to you becoming a brand new system administrator. As you've been highly trusted for mostly a year, we wish you good luck having another very high-trust role here. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 17:49, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Strong Support no concerns, trusted User with stewards privileges.---Infínítybσy7 • [@píng mє] 03:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support - Fine by me! With the please that my PRs are better considered --Justman10000 (talk) 09:27, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Very strong support No concerns or complaints from this user, trusted user with Steward, bureaucrat, admin, and interface administrator privileges. As you have been a long-term legitimate user with being a Steward for at least an entire year, we wish you very good lock having you here as an extremely strong-trust role here. It's great if you know PHP, SSH, and Git (and to be even more trusted, Apache, Github, Phabricator, Linux Debian, MySQL, MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and/or SQLite), and you are so active here plus a trusted Steward. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 14:48, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support Looks good to me. DR (talk) 13:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support Trusted user The AP (talk) 06:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Oh, but I'm not allowed to be? Interesting... And if you get it, me too one day, then that would be three (if not more)... Justman10000 (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm sure you can become one someday. Right now, it's your track record here on Test Wiki people are worried about, because you haven't been on here for all that long. All of our Stewards have had months to years of history here before becoming stewards, and there are no current non-founder sysadmins. I'd even encourage you to apply in the medium to long term future. We could use your help, but the community does not think you should be one right now. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm just afraid that too much could exist if I want to nominate myself for the second time! Justman10000 (talk) 21:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I became a steward on my third request. When I put out a call for system administrators, there were no candidates. I doubt there will be too many system administrators by the time you try again. Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Do you know enough about MediaWiki software and SQL? If yes, how will you use this knowledge? Thanks for your help. LisafBia (talk) 16:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki: Yes, I've been involved in various small projects, and so have enough knowledge to, for example, install extensions, manage them, and change configuration settings.

SQL: I have only a bit of prior knowledge of SQL (again, from the various small projects), but can probably figure out how to, for example, change namespaces DB side as required by T71 or remove protection as required by T60. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

That's OK there, Justarandomamerican. But you can learn SQL. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican: do you also intend to help with creating and modifying user groups? One example would be that admins can modify filters by default, and abuse filter admins (like me) and stewards can modify filters with restricted actions, as well as the ability to enable these actions. Thus, the AFA user right should only have one right, which is abusefilter-modify-restricted. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 17:41, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I do intend to help out with that, and would be happy to remove redundant rights as required. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity and if possible, can you provide the link of the projects you worked on The AP (talk) 06:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

There's only one that's still running, and that would be MakeaWiki. Justarandomamerican (talk) 11:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@MacFan4000: Close this at your leisure. Thank you. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Inactivity bot

Think about writing one! Should they revoke the permissions directly, or just notify? Justman10000 (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd say it should send notifications to the community portal at first, and upon demonstrating it works, have it make rights temporary when the user will be considered inactive in 2 weeks. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Systemadminstrator... or steward?

When would one be willing to accept me as a system administrator? I would be extremely unhappy to have to work for many months, a year or more! And would I have to become a steward first? Or could I be nominated and elected directly as a system administrator! Actually, the work itself says something about someone! Not the duration of the work Justman10000 (talk) 18:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

This is probably due to your account age, and please do not take this for granted, but your suitability to those high-trust roles (non-test roles) are what might concern me. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 18:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Why? I mean, rejecting someone just because their account is too young... Actions are what define one, not the duration of one's collaboration Justman10000 (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

System administrators can shut down the wiki at any time they please. They can also make decisions such as amending the privacy policy or blocking entire IP addresses from even being able to access the site. For this reason, the community wants to see quality and quantity of contributions from prospective system administrators. The same goes for prospective members of any non-test role that can make major decisions, such as AFAs and Stewards. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

And how old should an account be? Justman10000 (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Anywhere between 8 months to a year at least. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 19:06, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

How did you come up with exactly 8? Could be only 6 or 5 too Justman10000 (talk) 22:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

So, how about this, I recommend you have between 7 and 12 months of activity at least and know how to use PHP, Git, and SSH, and also recommend getting a Github account and sign in to it. If you don't have a Github account, you can register a Github account. I would also recommend to be active on the Wiki and be an administrator or bureaucrat and suggest for the best experience before system administrator, I would at least recommend requesting Steward permissions and also get a server from Linux Debian, MySQL, MariaDB, PostgreSQL, or SQLite and have an understanding of it. To be a Steward you can have at least 5 or 6 months of activity at least. I suggest you also have an understanding of Apache HTTP Server. Please read and heed any advice you need. Thanks. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 14:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

As I said, I've been working with Linux Debian for over 4 years! So I'm already familiar with everything mentioned! I've also had a GitHub account for years!

And do I have to wait the 7-12 months AFTER my successful election as a steward, or just add the rest from the 4-5 months after the steward election? Justman10000 (talk) 15:55, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you just joined late. In addition, I should say that you are too new there for Steward or System Administrator privileges. However, according to ChatGPT:

"Yes, MediaWiki supports Linux Debian Server. MediaWiki, the software that powers Wikipedia, is designed to run on a variety of operating systems, including Linux. Debian, a popular Linux distribution, is well-suited for running MediaWiki due to its stability, security, and robust package management system."

It is OK to use Linux Debian there on MediaWiki, but learn how to use Git, PHP, and SSH and also be active on this wiki. Please read and heed any advice. Thanks. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I know that MediaWiki also runs on Linux Debian? Huh? You indicated yourself that test wiki runs on a Linux Debian machine? And as I said, I already understand all mentioned Justman10000 (talk) 06:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, yep. Kinda so, according to ChatGPT. Just wait a few months and be active enough to become system administrator. You know? I'm not a system administrator either! Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

But I am sorry, Justman10000, this is a high trust role. Try again next time... Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't want to say that, but somehow... you're playing yourself up Justman10000 (talk) 08:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

It's real, not fake. And for true, only 1 is currently system administrator. However, this makes no flexibility for a regular steward to be flexible with a user that jumped from being a non-steward to a system administrator. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 12:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to clarify that this is a test wiki, which means that anyone can experiment with MediaWiki functionality here. Within this space, users can request various permissions except for sys admin and steward, specifically for testing purposes. Sys admin and steward rights are crucial for the smooth operation of this wiki and are not intended for testing purposes. Steward rights are granted to users who invest significant time here, and the community trusts their judgment for sensitive actions. Similarly, the system admin right is not given out for testing; it's essential for maintaining the wiki's smooth functioning. At the moment, we have one sys admin diligently fulfilling their duties. Should the need arise, the community or founder can nominate trusted and technically proficient users to take up the sys admin role. I hope this clarifies things. DR (talk) 13:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is correct, as gaining sysop and bureaucrat rights and being active for the wiki is the minimum for Steward or System Administrator rights, with additional System Administrators requiring know how to use PHP, Git, SSH, recommended MySQL, MariaDB, Linux Debian, SQLite, PostgreSQL, Apache, Github, and Phabricator and gaining Steward rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 13:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Nothing I didn't already know Justman10000 (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

What does that have to do with my comment? Justman10000 (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Involving the user rights for you. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 14:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000: I would like you to respond and reply here. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 15:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I still have no idea what you're talking about Justman10000 (talk) 16:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000: Here's the deal, you may have at least 7 months of activity and be active on this wiki to meet this criteria. You already meet other criteria, but I recommend yourself being a steward first. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 17:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Nominating Drummingman for system adminship

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

 Not done due to candidate non-acceptance. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

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I would like to nominate Drummingman because he's a trusted user with no concerns and he's here being a Steward for a little more than a year and active on this wiki. So what do you think of my nominal? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Dear @Tailsultimatefan3891 thanks for your nomination, I can certainly appreciate it. But I have absolutely no ambition to become a System administrator. Therefore, I do not accept the nomination. Greetings, Drummingman (talk) 21:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Voting

Support

•  Support Trusted user. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talk_contribs 20:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Wiki changes to propose upcoming

In the next few days somehow, I will post a bulk inserting of wiki changes here on the community portal. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 00:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Help to make an icon

Can anyone make a user icon for system administrator? As I am not good in that stuff and I need the icon to be added to the newsletters, I'm pinging @Codename Noreste as he previously updated some icons The AP (talk) 14:59, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

We could make it together. So what do we think? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 15:41, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

GIMP or Inkspace can be very useful for this kind of work. LisafBia (talk) 15:53, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I have Canva, so I will make the logo shortly. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 06:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done! I uploaded File:TW-Sysadmin.png. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 06:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much! The AP (talk) 09:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Proposal

Just like we have a disqualification section in bureaucrat policy why don’t we have a steward policy that covers how does the rights of stewards and non-steward suppressor are removed.I have noticed that some users with advanced rights i.e, steward and NSS remain inactive most of the time and come by once to make some little changes or perform actions once in 1-2 months so they can retain their rights. For example EPIC Who is a Wikimedia steward and hold administrator right at Swedish Wikipedia, I think he’s a bit busy that he can actively contribute to this project and same goes with Doug a.k.a. Dmehus who is semi active at Miraheze and really inactive at this project.Additionally X has been active for past few days. With this in mind I think we definitely need a way where the community can remove such advanced rights from the users through voting. Such a resolution can be taken place when at least one or more steward and or 5 or more Crats are supporting that proposals.This way we can hold the users accountable for misuses also The AP (talk) 14:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

While this is happening, one of the bulk changes will be an addition of the consul permission, which can handle up to 6 months of inactivity to handle their rights and instead stewards can handle up to 9 months of inactivity to handle their rights. This may interfere with this discussion. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 20:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This needs to be fleshed out more: What sort of consensus is required to remove Steward rights? What sort of consensus is required to remove NSS rights? How will the system prevent trolls or people holding grudges from missing it? Justarandomamerican (talk) 04:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Well it is not remove Steward rights. It is to add Consul rights between Bureaucrat and Steward rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 11:35, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Tailsultimatefan3891 You should start a new section for discussion of consul permissions; please carry out only steward policy-related discussion here. The AP (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Reasons for Removal

The rights for stewards and NSS can be removed only under two circumstances:

1.) Misuse of Rights: Any actions taken by a steward or NSS that are deemed as a misuse of their powers.

2.) Inactivity: A period of inactivity that is less than that specified in the inactivity policy.

Initiating a Resolution

To initiate the removal of rights, a resolution must be started at the community portal. The specific requirements for starting such a resolution are as follows:

For Stewards: The resolution must be supported by at least 2 stewards and/or 5 bureaucrats.

For NSS: The resolution must be supported by at least 1 steward and/or 1 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats.

Discussion and Voting Period

Once a resolution is initiated:

Discussion Period: The discussion must last for a minimum of 14 days and can extend up to a maximum of 30 days. This period allows for a thorough and reflective conversation among community members.

Voting Period: Voting will commence after one week of discussion.

Voting Requirements

In order to vote in the redesign, the user must have bureaucratic rights and have made 50 edits since acquiring admin rights

To ensure the removal of rights:

For Stewards: At least 80% of the votes must support the removal.

For NSS: At least 70% of the votes must support the removal. The AP (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican,this isn't perfect and it is just an idea of what purpose this would serve, if there is community consensus for the policy then I will proceed further The AP (talk) 18:13, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I would  support the idea of adding to the Stewards page or creating some sort of Test Wiki:Removal of non-test rights page to make such provisions. I prefer the former. I feel it would be useful. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:22, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

In my opinions, I would  Support this proposal. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 18:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Once I reach home I will make up the page as it seems there is community consensus for it The AP (talk) 04:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I would  Support it, but with the following additional condition: Only users who have at least the bureaucratic right, and who have made at least 50 (non-vandalistic) edits two weeks before the start of the discussion period, can vote during the impeachment process. This is to prevent trolls/vandals or troublemakers etc. from deploying sock puppets and/or meat puppets. Of course, other users who cannot meet those requirements are allowed to keep participating in the discussion of course they are not allowed to use sock puppets, and they are not allowed to vote. Drummingman (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

How does this apply to system administrators? Justarandomamerican (talk) 20:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC).

support provisionally crossed out due to practical concerns, from Justarandomamerican. Drummingman (talk) 21:57, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

@TheAstorPastor The only way I can think of is for stewards to have access to user rights and the server without being System administrators. This is to be able to add and remove rights; otherwise you have a system that is not foolproof. I honestly wonder if this is all well-thought-out now that I see these practical objections? We are a small community, this seems very difficult. A possible solution could also be, merge stewards and SA into the new users right 'Steward'. If 2 stewards or fewer remain, impeachment from the community is not possible. Drummingman (talk) 22:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I still would  Support this proposal, but for the resolutions, for the stewards, 2 stewards and/or 4 NSS and/or 4 AFAs, and/or 5 bureaucrats and/or 15 administrators, and for the NSSes and AFAs, 1 steward, 2 AFAs and/or 2 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats and/or 12 administrators. But I am not sure because the upcoming consul permission may interfere with the requirements. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 01:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@Drummingman:  Oppose the removal of system administrator right. As a steward combined they can be so powerful that they can lock the database or grant all user rights. However, later, I will announce the consul right as in between bureaucrat and steward, as an equivalent to sheriff on thetestwiki.org so system administrator rights will be slightly more rarely given than earlier to keep it balanced. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 01:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican and @Drummingman Well SA rights can be removed in a similar fashion i.e, 2 steward, and or 5 bureaucrat .We are a small community with 4 Steward,2 NSS and 2 SA.If there is 2 steward then definitely the impeachment is not possible but there is another way that is 5 bureaucrats. Existing steward may check user the votes so there is no sockpuppetry or meat puppetry. The AP (talk) 11:36, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Another possibility is that SA rights can't be removed for inactivity, which is less than specified in TW:IP because we only have 2 SA, out of which MacFan4000 remains inactive most of the time. But they can be removed for misuse. The AP (talk) 11:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral at this point. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican Do you think that I should proceed with the policy or wait a little bit longer? The AP (talk) 15:50, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

It would need to be closed by an uninvolved user, and I would not say that consensus has been reached yet. I would suggest taking all the feedback you’ve received and create a user subpage of what the updated rights pages would look like and create a new thread for the community to vote on. X (talk + contribs) 15:52, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Would you care to close the thread? The AP (talk) 17:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

I am now also Neutral because, no practical solution has been found for the SA combination stewards. Drummingman (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to argue about this, but system administrator rights are very powerful and I oppose on this decision. Like again:

"I still would  Support this proposal, but for the resolutions, for the stewards, 2 stewards and/or 4 NSS and/or 4 AFAs, and/or 5 bureaucrats and/or 15 administrators, and for the NSSes and AFAs, 1 steward, 2 AFAs and/or 2 NSS and/or 4 bureaucrats and/or 12 administrators. But I am not sure because the upcoming consul permission may interfere with the requirements."

And another statement I made:

" Oppose the removal of system administrator right. As a steward combined they can be so powerful that they can lock the database or grant all user rights. However, later, I will announce the consul right as in between bureaucrat and steward, as an equivalent to sheriff on thetestwiki.org so system administrator rights will be slightly more rarely given than earlier to keep it balanced."

In addition, non-bureaucrats can vote during the impeachment process as long as they made at least 70 (non-vandalism) edits 1 week prior to, has been registered for at least 1 month, and needs to be an administrator. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 22:39, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Question

Do I have to pass a vote at the community portal for requesting bureaucrat rights? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 12:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

No. You need Steward approval, or have consensus here for your rights to be reinstated. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

OK, I requested rights below. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 20:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Bureaucracy of Tailsultimatefan3891

• User: Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk · contribs · deleted · logs · rights) (assign permissions)
• Requested right: Bureaucrat (indef or until inactive for 3 months)
• Link to your account in other projects, e.g. Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom (optional): Rating System Wiki Contentpedia
• [I agree] I am familiar with all of Test Wiki's policies and agree to follow them completely.
• [I also agree] I agree that I am entirely responsible for all actions done under this account, including actions performed under this account by someone other than myself.
• [I also agree] I agree that if I misuse the tools, my access might be revoked and I may be banned from Test Wiki without prior warning.
• [I also agree] Note this right can only be granted by stewards.

Other comments: I would suggest passing a vote here. I know what are the risks here. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 20:16, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

•  Suppose, like mines! MihaiAdmin1 (talk) 20:23, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry suspected. I assume the stewards are investigating. X (talk + contribs) 20:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

No relation between Mihai and Tailsultimatefan. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it was not me who did it by confirmation. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 16:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Weak support They haven't created any problems since acquiring the rights. Let's give them a temporary crat bit which can later be extended to permanent The AP (talk) 15:14, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  What is the duration recommended? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 16:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  One month, at the minimum? Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 03:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  That's for stewards to decide The AP (talk) 17:43, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe so. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 22:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support Author request per temporary crat proposal. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 16:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  Now  Weak support. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 17:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

•  Support If I recall correctly, this user has not done anything wrong recently, in the sense of violating policies. However, pretty much of what X said is true. But me personally, I don't have any problems with giving this user bureaucrat rights, but I'd also like to see them address the problems X has stated from the oppose and neutral sections. Tsukushi (talk) 08:40, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

• I haven’t seen a clear demonstration of maturity and knowledge of wiki norms to feel comfortable supporting this. X (talk + contribs) 17:11, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  Why? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 17:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  For one, you “supported” your own rights request above. You also left a comment saying you supported a users block, which I reverted. I’ve been back from my wiki break for only 2 days and have already seen two things that don’t show knowledge of community norms. That is why I am not comfortable at this time. X (talk + contribs) 18:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  OK. You can change your vote at any time before voting ends. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 01:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  I am aware, yes. X (talk + contribs) 01:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  I got it! OK. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 02:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

• The user needs to get to know the policies for a while. LisafBia (talk) 15:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

  I already know it. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 23:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

• Per X's comment. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 06:50, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

  I already know it. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 23:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral/Abstain

• Neutral Per X. Username (talk) 23:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  Please note that this is a vote from a non-sysop. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 01:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  This, yet again, shows a lack of understanding of our policies. Non-sysops are permitted to voice their opinion in community discussions and their user rights hold no weight on their voting ability. Also, username is the alternative account of @Jody, a crat. X (talk + contribs) 01:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  I got it! OK. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 02:09, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments

Sometimes, I see some (if not most) of their edits in Abuse filter test trying to trigger and test some filters. Maybe you should do other non-test work here. Codename Noreste 🤔 Talk 23:30, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

It is just a test. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 23:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Suppression Reports

Not sure if this was ever officially announced, but you can go to Special:Report/REVID to report a revision that needs suppressed. X (talk + contribs) 21:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

When I installed the extension, I announced it on Discord, but never made an announcement here. *facepalm* Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:04, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

*sigh* *ahem* I agree on this feature. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 21:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

You’re fine, no problem! X (talk + contribs) 21:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

It's also included in the newsletter :) The AP (talk) 15:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Cool, right? Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 17:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Discord error

I joined the Discord yesterday but couldn't verify (see image). Could someone take a look? Thanks. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 03:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Wait a little bit or try to refresh (especially if taking indefinitely long), if still not working, check your Discord settings, and then try to refresh again, if not repeat this cycle until you believe the Discord settings are correct, then if it still happens, check your browser settings and refresh, repeat this cycle, if it is not clear your cache, and if still not working try to restart your computer Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 14:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

It is already fixed by me. Greetings Drummingman (talk) 19:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing this. CanonNi, try to refresh tab. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 01:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Yup, got it working. Thanks, both of you. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 04:27, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Consensus for Extension:NewUserMessage

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I think it's fair to say that there is consensus for implementing this extension, due to the only negative argument being rebutted without response. I'll go ahead and implement this. Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:03, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

---

Justarandomamerican recently closed a task that intended to add Extension:NewUserMessage which would add a message to the talk pages of newly created accounts.The reason for closure was that he needed to see community consensus. Please note down your vote in suitable sections The AP (talk) 17:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

•  Support I don't see any concerns about adding the Extension The AP (talk) 17:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
•  Support We pretty much welcome all new users anyway, might as well automate it. X (talk + contribs) 19:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
•  Support I think an automation is necessary to welcome new users and I support the extension because I requested it. LisafBia (talk) 19:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
•  Support '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 02:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
•  Support Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 23:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

•  Oppose Honestly, this extension should NOT be implemented. To all of the users who will register when this bot is in operation will have their talk pages created automatically by this extension's bot with the standard {{welcome}} template and signature. Who knows who the bot welcomes and what those users' intentions will be? Most of those users will not deserve a welcome on their talk pages because they'll be users who will never make a single contribution here, so what's the point in welcoming users like them? This includes the future spam-bots and vandals of course. I view what the bot will do as spam and excessive clogging to the User talk: namespace. I prefer that we, this time, stick to welcoming new users on our own, to the ones who'll register and actually make their first constructive edits, or other ways from them that show their deserving of these welcomes. Tsukushi (talk) 08:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

  I would disagree. This Wiki is small and there are very little new users (only 13 accounts were registered last month). Even if certain users use their accounts for malicious purposes, they are easily blockable because, remember, almost everyone is an admin here. And if the extension does cause problems, it can be easily disabled. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 11:41, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

  Furthermore, welcoming people and giving them quick links to request rights is helpful to new users that aren’t familiar with the layout of the wiki. There isn’t always someone online that will welcome them. X (talk + contribs) 01:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

  I would not oppose in the favor in that question. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 22:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

• Neutral per Tsukushi pretty much Tsukushi may be true but I arguably think that a bot may welcome new users or someone would like to use a different Welcome template. Tailsultimatefan3891 ^talklogs_contribs 22:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

I would like to remind you all that consensus is !voting. The opposition argument above will be given significantly more weight, as will any well thought out supporting or neutral arguments. Justarandomamerican (talk) 23:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Suggestion

Hey everyone, I've noticed that in the navigation section of the main menu on the left side, there's a link to test pages that redirects to a category of test pages. Instead of linking to the category, I suggest we create a list of test pages and include a one-line description for each page. This would be more helpful for new users. The AP (talk) 15:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

That seems pretty uncontroversial, go ahead! X (talk + contribs) 12:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Welcoming users

We should welcome a newly-registered user when they make their first edit. Not before, but after. Tsukushi (talk) 01:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Requests for approval (bot)

Hello all, I have created a bot account named User:DR bot for maintenance tasks on this wiki. The first task I want to perform with this bot is to archive discussions on pages like the community portal, user talk pages, and other discussion venues. Therefore, I am requesting approval from the community. I'm also happy to assist with other tasks as needed. DR (talk) 16:23, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I am against a bot archiving user talk pages, people should and do have the freedom to archive whenever. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 20:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I would assume such a bot would be opt-in, as I would oppose mandatory archival myself. Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

This seems very uncontroversial if user talks are opt-in. We don’t have a RfBA here, @DR, so you are welcome to move forward with your bot. X (talk + contribs) 23:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Justarandomamerican, @Sav, @X This bot will not archive user talk page messages on its own. It will only do so if the following template is present. Users can add this template if they want to archive messages automatically.

{{User:DR/config

|archive = User talk:DR/Archive %(counter)d

|algo = old(1d)

|counter = 1

|maxarchivesize = 10k

|archiveheader =

|minthreadstoarchive = 1

|minthreadsleft = 1

}}

DR (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, in that case, I'll go ahead and give your bot the green flag. Justarandomamerican (talk) 03:11, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, that changes my opinion. All good with me :) Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 19:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@DR Can you shed light on other tasks this bot will perform? The AP (talk) 12:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

I currently don't have any other tasks, but I am available to help with anything if someone needs. DR (talk) 12:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)