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*::::Simpler, maybe. But is it procedurally ''just'' and ''fair''? No. So far, they haven't been able to go a month recently without contravening user accounts policy. Let's see if they can even go three months, okay? If not, you have my promise Stewards will keep blocking any sockpuppets as crosswiki or long-term abuse. :) [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 12:59, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *::::Simpler, maybe. But is it procedurally ''just'' and ''fair''? No. So far, they haven't been able to go a month recently without contravening user accounts policy. Let's see if they can even go three months, okay? If not, you have my promise Stewards will keep blocking any sockpuppets as crosswiki or long-term abuse. :) [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 12:59, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*:::::They've been given countless chances and appeals that were just and fair. Enough is enough. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *:::::They've been given countless chances and appeals that were just and fair. Enough is enough. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*::::::There is no such thing as a 'permanent ban or block', on ''any'' mainstream, reputable wiki. I think a core part of the problem, aside from blocks by test bureaucrats early on that should've been left to Stewards, is that we haven't allowed a sufficient length of time to pass before assessing Piccadilly's capacity to heed instruction from Stewards, together with the community's advice. If you (or Sav) would like to have a constructive discussion on that timeframe is, I think ''that'' would be a productive discussion to have and I'm happy to have it. I think it's obviously longer than a month. Should it be three months, six months, or a year? Keep in mind, they haven't been able to go a month in recent months. And, what is your reason for choosing that timeframe? [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 13:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
*:::{{tq|We don't want to keep unblocking and reblocking Piccadilly}} Unfortunately, I believe the ship of expressing a desire not to has sailed. That is what has happened. If the majority of [[Test Wiki:Stewards|us]] can promise that community consensus will be required for an unblock, that's great, and is an alternative way of resolving this discussion's aim. I'd be fine with that resolution. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 13:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *:::{{tq|We don't want to keep unblocking and reblocking Piccadilly}} Unfortunately, I believe the ship of expressing a desire not to has sailed. That is what has happened. If the majority of [[Test Wiki:Stewards|us]] can promise that community consensus will be required for an unblock, that's great, and is an alternative way of resolving this discussion's aim. I'd be fine with that resolution. [[User:Justarandomamerican|Justarandomamerican]] ([[User talk:Justarandomamerican|talk]]) 13:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*::::I'm curious for your thoughts on simply not allow Piccadilly to ever appeal again, given you did make [https://testwiki.wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Piccadilly&diff=prev&oldid=37774 this comment]. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *::::I'm curious for your thoughts on simply not allow Piccadilly to ever appeal again, given you did make [https://testwiki.wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Piccadilly&diff=prev&oldid=37774 this comment]. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
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*::::::Maybe when the stewards forward my appeal to the community, we could include the condition that if I get blocked again, it will be almost guaranteed that no one would agree to unblock me if I were to get into trouble here again. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 13:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *::::::Maybe when the stewards forward my appeal to the community, we could include the condition that if I get blocked again, it will be almost guaranteed that no one would agree to unblock me if I were to get into trouble here again. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 13:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*:::::::Almost guarantees haven't proven effective before. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | *:::::::Almost guarantees haven't proven effective before. [[User:X|'''<span style="background:#3383ff;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">X</span>''']] ([[User talk:X|talk]] + [[Special:Contributions/X|contribs]]) 13:23, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
*:::::::As a community-advised, Steward-imposed block, that ''would'' effectively be what we would do. It wouldn't be an up-or-down !vote, but rather, a series of questions asking the community's input on minimum timeframe before unblocking, conditions to be imposed by Stewards upon a conditional unblocking, and what penalties shall occur based on the level of infraction. I think, fundamentally, if the community is able to advise on minimum timeframe away from Test Wiki, that would satisfy all concerned. At the end of the day, ''time'' often heals all wounds (apologies for the cliché!) [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 13:44, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
*So I see now that Sav just wants everyone to be on the same page in regard to this issue, which is understandable. How about the following proposal: | *So I see now that Sav just wants everyone to be on the same page in regard to this issue, which is understandable. How about the following proposal: | ||
:When the stewards feel I'm ready to be unblocked, which will most likely not be until at least August, they forward my appeal to the community, so they can all vote on it and can share any concerns or issues they may have with it? I'm willing to accept whatever is decided on by the stewards and community when that time comes, whether that means a full unblock, partial, or even no unblock. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 12:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | :When the stewards feel I'm ready to be unblocked, which will most likely not be until at least August, they forward my appeal to the community, so they can all vote on it and can share any concerns or issues they may have with it? I'm willing to accept whatever is decided on by the stewards and community when that time comes, whether that means a full unblock, partial, or even no unblock. [[User:Piccadilly|Piccadilly]] ([[Special:Contribs/Piccadilly|<span style="color:red">My Contribs</span>]] | [[User talk:Piccadilly|<span style="color:#0080ff">My Messages</span>]]) 12:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||
::That's the status quo. You're currently blocked indefinitely by Stewards. Given your past disruption, Stewards ''would'' likely seek feedback from the community with respect to minimum timeframe for an appeal to be considered and to the technical measures that need to be put in place as well as conditions of such an unblock. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 12:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ::That's the status quo. You're currently blocked indefinitely by Stewards. Given your past disruption, Stewards ''would'' likely seek feedback from the community with respect to minimum timeframe for an appeal to be considered and to the technical measures that need to be put in place as well as conditions of such an unblock. [[User:Dmehus|Dmehus]] ([[User talk:Dmehus|talk]]) 12:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC) | ||