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Alternate proposal: Merging CheckUser and oversight to steward

Hello community! I’d like to propose an alternative to the proposal above about merging the rights. Here’s what I’d propose:

• Stewards are granted the suppression-log, view suppressed, and CheckUser-log rights for accountability;
• The CheckUser and Suppressor groups remain existent and aren’t removed;

This would allow for accountability amongst stewards and still allow non/stewards to be granted those rights if absolutely necessary. X (talk) 15:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support - That seems like a good and better proposal, which is why I withdrew my proposal. Drummingman (talk) 15:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support AlPaD (talk) 15:28, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support as proposer. X (talk) 20:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose viewsuppressed as it poses a confidentiality risk,  Support the rest. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:14, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Could you elaborate what you mean by “confidentiality risk”? @Drummingman requested I add “view suppressed” to list via Discord, so you may want to discuss with him. X (talk) 11:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The reason I want to include view suppressed is that the logs already show a (partially) suppressed version, but to check each other properly you need view suppressed, and otherwise you have to add suppression yourself. The rest has to do with trusting the stewards to keep suppressed versions secret, which hopefully is already the case. Drummingman (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

What's wrong with adding the rights in that case? I don't view that as a significant imposition, and it aids public and community transparency. Dmehus (talk) 16:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think you should be able to just view suppressed revisions without the community knowing. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:43, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

 Support: per proposer. Whether non-stewards should be granted CU or SU is a question I will pose in another proposal if this one succeeds. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose per Zippybonzo. Dmehus (talk) 16:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

So would you support it without view suppressed? X (talk) 16:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes. There does seem to be unanimous consensus here to at least checkuser-log being added. Dmehus (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral - CU and SU practice for bureaucrats are optional, but I don't mind with CU and SU remain existent and not removed and steward having the CU and SU rights. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:47, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Possible close?

Drummingman, AlPaD, X, Zippybonzo, Justarandomamerican, and Tailsultimatefan3891, I'm involved, and though I am fairly certain there would be no objections to me closing in this way, I thought I'd {{ping}} you all here to receive your assent to this being closed as follows, as successful with checkuser-log added to the steward group and all other user groups remaining the same? Dmehus (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Drummingman (talk) 22:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree Zippybonzo (talk) 05:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. AlPaD (talk) 15:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Object to proposed close

• I don’t see why suppression log cannot be added too, given that there was no opposition to that. X (talk) 21:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
• I'm confused. Why exactly would that be the only right added, given the fact that the only possible opposition to suppression-log is confusing as a (full?) opposition based on a partial opposition? Justarandomamerican (talk) 21:55, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  X and Justarandomamerican, I've refreshed my memory on what Test Wiki's Special:Log/suppress displays, which is what would be viewable if that user right were added to the steward user group. For all or most pages in (Main) namespace or most other namespaces, there is little PII leakage. Similarly, there is also little to no PII leakage when secretly changing specific revisions to a page. However, the issue I suspected existed, which is what I think Zippybonzo was alluding to in his !vote argument is for pages within User: and User talk: namespaces. Specifically, on pages where a user inadvertently edited while logged lout or where they created an IP user/user talk page instead of their own user/user talk page. If this user right were added, it would be very easy to associate the likely page creator/editor to the likely IP address. I realize Stewards are trusted by the community, but on the same hand, I also feel like it's a lot of information that could be gleaned without having to add one's CheckUser hat. Dmehus (talk) 22:13, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  You really shouldn’t be considering your own opinions/interpretations when closing. ZippyBonzo only said they opposed adding the “view-suppressed”. There is full support for adding the other 2. X (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  That's why I am proposing this for discussion on a possible close, given the stated opposition and neutral comment from Tailsultimatefan3891. It's also possible others may re-consider their views. I would not close this until there is unanimity in the proposed close. :) Dmehus (talk) 22:26, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  Definitely. Let's wait and see for a couple days then, shall we? Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  Agreed. :) Dmehus (talk) 22:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  I still object on the grounds that that's not what consensus was, as X said. Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  On a strict nose count, yes, I agree there is majority support for the original proposal, but not necessarily consensus given the ~60% net support ratio. It would be better to have a clearer consensus. This was proposed as an alternative, but happy to consider other alternatives? Dmehus (talk) 22:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  Yeah, there’s a 60% overall support, but full support for adding the CheckUser and suppression log rights. Not sure why you would go against full community consensus like this… X (talk) 22:31, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  A support ratio alone isn't enough to determine consensus here, as the lone neutral !voter was more like an abstention: They said nothing to imply that they even had an opinion. I agree with waiting, however. Justarandomamerican (talk) 22:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Requests for stewardship X

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Closed as per the withdrawal in the "Result" section by the candidate. Whilst I have voted, this is unambiguous, see the withdrawal. Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

Dear, community, I would hereby like to nominate user X as Steward.

It has now been a little over a month since X applied for Steward. Meanwhile, I see that X has developed positively and is very active. I think X could help the steward team with Test Wiki maintenance, so that an active steward is available more often to help this wiki. For example, to close community discussions that are still open. I hope you will join me in supporting X. Drummingman (talk) 14:33, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

User X, please indicate here whether you accept the nomination?

Yes, I accept the nomination and sincerely thank Drummingman for his kind words. If a steward thinks I can assist the steward team, then I am up for it. :) X (talk) 14:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Support

•  Support as candidate. I'm very active here and want to help out the current steward team. Ive performed most of the permissions requests since I joined the wiki, and Drummingman thinks I can help as a steward. X (talk) 14:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Struck as you cannot !vote for yourself. Zippybonzo (talk) 05:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Unstruck. A steward will decide that when closing. There is no policy saying you cannot. X (talk) 11:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

No, but it's obvious, your support is automatically counted, it's common sense that you shouldn't vote for yourself, I'm going to strike it again as it's good practise to not vote for yourself. Zippybonzo (talk) 15:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

As it is not forbidden by policy, you should go to the talk page for consensus instead of redoing your edit. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

And in addition, it appears that in the past users have voted for themselves, most recently @Drummingman in his successful RFS. X (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Deleting pages randomly isn't forbidden, but frowned upon, you started the edit war by reinstating a reversed edit. Zippybonzo (talk) 17:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

We both know that unstriking votes and randomly deleting pages are 2 very different things. X (talk) 19:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

No, my point is it doesn't say explicitly it's forbidden, but you get disciplined for it. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Why not? I also think X can be trusted with the rights and responsibilities of a Steward. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

  Move to oppose due to concerns I have. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support - As the nominator. Drummingman (talk) 14:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

  Moved to Neutral, Drummingman (talk) 19:15, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Has done a good job on For-Test and is trustworthy Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 14:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Trusted user, thank you for your help! AlPaD (talk) 15:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
• Heavy  Support. Trusted user, incredibly helpful and can be trusted with the rights. Good luck!Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 02:01, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

* Support why not? Zippybonzo (talk) 05:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• Zippybonzo, I'm confused as to whether you are supporting or opposing here, given you've moved back and forth between support and oppose, and your argument on record still suggests an oppose. Can you please clarify this? Dmehus (talk) 16:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Per the diff I’ve linked on your talk, Zippy has supported and struck their oppose vote. Please revert your unstrike. X (talk) 16:09, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I can see that, but I'll decline to unstrike it for the time being, given that I've asked Zippybonzo to clarify already whether they are supporting or opposing currently and why, given their current argument on record suggests the latter. They may also wish to consider subsequent comments from users, given how they have gone back and forth. Finally, with so many users striking and unstriking comments here, I think it's best to leave it to them. Dmehus (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  You can’t just unstrike comments because that drastically affects the vote. And just because they might want to concierge other arguments isn’t a correct reason either; they will do that on their own accord. X (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• Moved to oppose. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Support Cocopuff2018 (talk) 21:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
•  Support. X is very active, very constructive, very helpful, and have satisfactory edits, and is an admin and a bureaucrat. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

•  Oppose I don't think we need a new steward. LisafBia (talk) 06:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

  Hello @LisafBia! Thanks for commenting on my stewardship request. I completely agree with the point you make. We don’t really NEED a new steward currently, but in my opinion, it would be very helpful. And considering that one of the stewards, @Drummingman, agrees with the need for another steward, it’s probably best to elect one. I’m not attempting to sway your opinion, just provide you with another point of view you might not have considered. Thanks for reading my long comment, sometimes I don’t know how to be less verbose. :) X (talk) 11:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose per LisafBia, and on other wikis, they have inadvertently leaked IP addresses when blocking users and the underlying IPs. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

This is simply untrue. I didn’t “inadvertently leak” IPs. I blocked the IPs of blocked users after a steward discussion. @Justarandomamerican: can tell you that he agreed with the actions, I was just the one who performed them. And with our updated privacy policy to exempt socks, the actions are policy supported too. In addition, our community just reviewed the actions and thought they were appropriate. You were the only one who disagreed. I can definitely see how it would come off that way, but this was a carefully discussed action that the stewards thought needed to be taken. X (talk) 11:11, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but IPs were still released, whether it was permitted or not is a different question, and I'm leaving my vote as is, and we don't need a new steward in any case. Zippybonzo (talk) 13:18, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The argument that IPs that were released on another wiki after discussion to block them in order to prevent disruption doesn't seem to be taking the circumstances here into consideration. This is a wiki that permits Stewards to go beyond just releasing IPs to block them. It's fine if you oppose based on need, that's okay. But using the argument explained above as a secondary argument still doesn't make it a good argument. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose possibly strong for multiple reasons. For one thing, as LisafBia has indicated above, with Drummingman's recent election to Steward, they are quite active here. Combined with my own resumption of being semi-active here, as well as MacFan4000, I feel there isn't a sufficient need for an additional Steward. Secondly, I am not comfortable granting restricted permissions to someone I don't know, at least not without some on-wiki confirmation that they've held restricted tools on a Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom, or other major wiki or wiki farm. For Test Wiki is a recent launch, initiated as a protest wiki by one user who took issue with the way Public Test Wiki and/or Test Wiki are run. I do not consider holding restricted permissions on For Test Wiki to be sufficient demonstration that the user can be trusted. As well, I also see user conduct issues. While I do see some edit warring on Zippybonzo's part, I also see edit warring on X's part, including striking other users' votes. That should be left to other users to do; it's just not a good look, especially in one's own permission request. Even if it was justified, it's a potential conflict of interest. More problematic, though, it makes it difficult for other Stewards and community members to fully and easily assess the edits in editorial disputes. Additionally, in X's last Stewardship request, there was strong opposition to the request, to submit to or agree to another nomination so soon, disregards the community consensus formed in that discussion—a closure which was pre-empted by X's closing the request as withdrawn, which, too, is problematic from that perspective. Finally, I also have issues with the user's recent handling of Seiyena, proceeding directly to a longer term block and interfering with Justarandomamerican's handling of the situation, which included firm warnings. This makes me question their potential judgment as a Steward. Finally, their reaching out to me privately to request closure, for the sake of closing the discussion, which was barely opened four days ago also troubles me. I don't know whether X used Special:EmailUser to reach out to MacFan4000 as well, but I do know they reached out to Drummingman to close, and Drummingman closing as nominator would indeed by a highly involved, problematic closure, so I'm glad he declined that. Dmehus (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I cannot see striking of other users' votes, can you please provide a diff? Thank you. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  He may be referring to when I added an end strike when ZippyBonzo forgot to, although that was definitely a correct action. X (talk) 16:14, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Justarandomamerican, yes, I believe I linked to it in an edit summary, no? I believe it may be the one X refers to. Whether it was a correct strike if Zippybonzo had withdrawn their !vote, they are also capable of fixing it themselves or, should they not be sufficiently active, letting an unconflicted user fix it. That's still problematic. Dmehus (talk) 16:24, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Helping out another user is problematic? I was just trying to help. X (talk) 16:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  In your own permissions request. That's conflicted. You [rfc:2119 should] have left it to another user to fix. Dmehus (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Okay. But I would also like to point out that undo-ing a strike that supports what you think is also very conflicted and problematic. X (talk) 16:30, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not too sure how adding an end-strike to a !vote amendment which resulted in the !voting user striking an entire part of discussion out is inherently problematic. It is a mere technical fix which should be uncontroversial. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:31, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I directly recall asking X to do it on my behalf off-wiki. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:34, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

  I’m still trying to comprehend your entire reasoning, but I wanted to point out that @Drummingman was the one who asked me to email you requesting closure. He can confirm this. X (talk) 16:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  I don't know about that; all I do know is you e-mailed me. I'm sure Drummingman would have e-mailed me, as he has e-mailed me in the past with respect to other matters, if he felt closure was needed. Perhaps there could be a more justifiable case in the case of a permission request being outstanding for two or three weeks, but 3-4 days? That's quite quick, in my view. Dmehus (talk) 16:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose: I believe that this candidate having Steward rights may cause even further problems when they intervene in disputes. I have concerns about their independent judgment on second thought, due to working with them elsewhere. It appears they may not be able to make proper decisions independently. This !vote will likely be amended as I do further research. Justarandomamerican (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose: I'm going to add a fresh oppose as I'm fed up of striking and unstriking, but whilst I believe X is competent, I would like to see them holding advanced permissions somewhere like Wikimedia. I also find their conduct in this discussion to be confusing/concerning. The rest of my oppose !vote is summed up by Justarandomamerican and Dmehus. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

• Neutral. X is very active, very constructive, very helpful, and have satisfactory edits, and is an admin and a bureaucrat, despite some features he need to work on. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Could you specify how you think I can improve? Thanks! X (talk) 17:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  CheckUser and Suppressor. Once you complete those 2 things, you can be steward. I'm contacting the stewards and one of the three stewards will give you both CU and Suppressor. Pinging the stewards. @Drummingman: @MacFan4000: @Dmehus: Stewards, could you promote X to CheckUser and Suppressor? Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  Per established policy, these rights won't be granted to non-stewards. So basically, If you want me to hold these rights, I must first be a steward. X (talk) 18:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

  OK, moved my vote to support. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:48, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• Neutral- As the nominator, I want to be Neutral. Drummingman (talk) 19:15, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Result

Withdrawn by X (talk) at 12:39, 2 July 2023 (UTC).

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

User:Example

Greetings, @Drummingman: @Dmehus:.

I have a query regarding tracking and identifying individuals who have accessed a particular user account and conducted unauthorized activities, specifically acts of vandalism. Considering the recent blocks on the user in question, I believe it is important to determine the individuals responsible for such actions. Is there a feasible method to achieve this? Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 02:04, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think any action is needed at this time, considering the account hasn’t edited since March. If the account were to start vandalizing again, a CheckUser may want to take a look, but now I’m not sure it’s needed. However, it’s ultimately up to the stewards. X (talk) 02:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with X. CU also no longer makes sense because the logs are only kept for 90 days. However, I did block the account indefinitely as a Steward action because it is indeed a site risk. Drummingman (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Block proxy 159.89.228.253

Status:  Done

• 159.89.228.253 - A SOCKS4 open proxy. Port for this proxy is 38172. I am not an admin. Requested 19:57, 30 June 2023 (UTC).

Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block)

Block numberous proxies

Status:  Done

I am not an admin.

• 143.47.185.211
• 107.181.230.227
• 143.47.185.211

Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:07, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 13.81.217.201. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:08, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X (talk) 20:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 51.38.191.151. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X (talk) 20:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 162.144.233.16. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:13, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done X performed a range block including this, and a individual block for this proxy. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 72.195.34.59. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done performed by X. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 22:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also block: 98.188.47.132. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 22:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Proxy bot

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Status:  Not done and withdrawn

Nomination

Hi, This is a nomination from Tailsultimatefan3891. Can any administrator have a proxy bot? It's the same, but with slight differences. Instead of blocking proxies manually, it's now automatically. It prevents proxies from further disruption and protects the wiki from disruption from proxies. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 20:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Note: Uses Special:Block to block proxies. The bot will check proxies at this link: [1]. Then will copy the selected IP and paste the selected IP at the "User/IP" section. Then it will block the proxy. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Please link the code. X (talk) 21:24, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

What does it mean? Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:45, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

A bot needs code to run… X (talk) 21:47, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Comments

•  Comment: Please provide code bot will use to run. X (talk) 20:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
  • I did. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

    No you didn’t. Code is usually stored on GitHub. Providing a link to a list or proxies isn’t code. Until this is provided I’m marking as  Not done. X (talk) 21:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Result

Status as withdrawn. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Rename Request

Hello! Would it be possible for a steward to rename me to Piccadilly? Thank you! Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 21:25, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Support as it will create consistency with other projects. X (talk) 21:41, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @MacFan4000: @Dmehus: @Drummingman: Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 21:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done MacFan4000 ^{(Talk Contribs)} 15:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Seiyena (My Contribs | Talk to me) 17:04, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Block proxies, users, and IPs at the link below

Block proxies, users, and IPs: User:Tailsultimatefan3891/Block users and IPs requests

Note: I am not an admin. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 17:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Add IPBE privilege

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Moot, as said by some participants, the ipblock-exempt user right is already contained with the sysop user group, which has no prerequisites other than a confirmation edit. That being said, there could be a benefit to moving this user right from the sysop group to the bureaucrat group and/or be a separate user group grantable by bureaucrats and stewards to trusted users. It would also aid in user restriction-restricted user management, but that can be a potential discussion for much later. Dmehus (talk) 21:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

This is Tailsultimatefan3891. I'd like the wiki to have the IPBE (IP block exemption) privilege to Test Wiki. Unfortunately however, I can't do it immediately, as only system administrators can do it. The IPBE privilege can have the following right:

• Bypass IP blocks, auto-blocks and range blocks (ipblock-exempt)

Update of 18:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC): Only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks that anyone has logging to their user but not an admin.

From, Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Support

•  Support Author request. It helps non-admins in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
•  Support as some people won't be able to request rights if they have a blocked IP. Zippybonzo (talk) 10:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

•  Oppose as sysops already have it, so no need for a separate group. X (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
  • But only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks that anyone has logging to their user but not an admin. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 18:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
    • I can see that, but any user can become an admin, so isn't it redundant? X (talk) 18:56, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
      • Even users request to get their permission can be blocked only in the case of an IP block, auto-block, and/or range blocks before the permission is granted. It has since existed on Wikipedia and The Test Wiki (the wiki made in 2010). It hasn't been made on this wiki yet. For this, it's partially redundant. IPBE is for non-sysops only. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk)
•  Oppose As per X's comment. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 21:18, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Just what I tell you above. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 12:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments

•  Comment: I don't know if IPBE is very useful or not. While IPBE for admins is being redundant, it's not redundant for non-admins. But IPBE isn't totally useful because with just 1 person voting  Support (that was me) 2 persons voting  Support (that was Zippybonzo and me) and also 2 persons voting  Oppose (that was Sav and X). By the way, it's unknown if it's very helpful, while leaning on not extremely useful. Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) (contribs) (rights) (block) 23:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Moot. A reasonable request for system administrators to consider at some point in the future. Dmehus (talk) 01:40, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

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Nomination

Hello, this is Tailsultimatefan3891. Miraheze and Cloudflare had put on hCaptcha already. I have my Google Sites wiki Captiolgipedia have human/robot verification being hCaptcha. reCAPTCHA is used by millions of users, can be passed by some bots, and is a good security protection. But hCaptcha is a better security protection, as it can be passed by more users and be passed by fewer bots. hCaptcha will be unknown if it is too powerful for bots (or even, users). However, only system administrators can change reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 19:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Also, MacFan4000 can choose a dark or light theme of hCaptcha box, and normal or compact size of hCaptcha box. Tailsultimatefan3891 (T | C | UR | B) 20:23, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments

• This [rfc:2119 should not] need a full community discussion, as it's (a) a technical change and (b) quite a non-controversial one. We haven't had many issues with reCAPTCHA here, like Miraheze has/had, so it's not that urgent. I think we can let MacFan4000 decide when/if to switch to hCAPTCHA. I personally would have no objections to that change. Dmehus (talk) 20:11, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Result

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Potential RfS candidate

Hello. I'm considering running for Stewardship sometime in the near future. I would be assisted greatly by the Steward tools, given that my main edits and logged actions consist of preventing abuse. I also think the community needs another Steward due to the fact that we have 3 Stewards, and only 1 is fully active, and a person cannot manage every Steward-reserved matter by themselves. I would add additional coverage to spot and prevent complex disruption, such as by users who lack the skills necessary to edit. My question is, what does the community think? Add feedback here in the Survey section below. Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:30, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Survey

I would support. You have handled your tools well here and on other wikis, and are trustworthy. Piccadilly (My Contribs | Talk to me) 01:32, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I would not have any opposition to a potential run at some point in the near- to medium-term future. I would just recommend you articulate a clear need, invite questions from the community, and, perhaps, provide several situation-based examples to which you would articulate how you would handle those situations. As a Steward and an administrator of such elections, I will refrain from an expressing a view and stay neutral, so as to be impartial in any potential close. Dmehus (talk) 01:38, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

“With Drummingman's recent election to Steward, they are quite active here. Combined with my own resumption of being semi-active here, as well as MacFan4000, I feel there isn't a sufficient need for an additional Steward.” How is that different here? “I am not comfortable granting restricted permissions to someone I don't know, at least not without some on-wiki confirmation that they've held restricted tools on a Wikimedia, Miraheze, Fandom, or other major wiki or wiki farm. For Test Wiki is a recent launch, initiated as a protest wiki by one user who took issue with the way Public Test Wiki and/or Test Wiki are run. I do not consider holding restricted permissions on For Test Wiki to be sufficient demonstration that the user can be trusted.” How is that different either @Dmehus? X (talk) 01:45, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The former: I have articulated a need for Stewards based on activity, as well as an individual need for the tools. The latter: I'm Justarandomamerican on Miraheze and Wikimedia, and collaborated with Dmehus on Miraheze. Note that this comment are my thoughts on the matter, not his. Justarandomamerican (talk) 02:06, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I know, but @Dmehus has expressed that he doesn’t think we need another steward, so I’m asking for clarification. X (talk) 02:16, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I said I think it would need to be well-articulated on what the requesting user plans to do. While ideally some sort of global role would be nice to demonstrate the user is trusted, I actually thought Justarandomamerican was a Wikimedia Global Rollbacker, but I think I was thinking of JavaHurricane, with whom I've also collaborated on Miraheze and Public Test Wiki. IMHO, it [rfc:2119 should] be some sort of local or global role on Miraheze, Wikimedia, or Fandom that demonstrates the user is sufficiently trusted. For Wikimedia, it can probably be a local role, whereas on Miraheze, I'd say either a Miraheze Meta Wiki local role, Public Test Wiki Consul, or a Miraheze global role (other than global IP block exemption). For Fandom, it should be a Fandom global community or staff role. Hope that clarifies. :) Dmehus (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not a global rollbacker on WM as I have no need for that right at the moment, but I am an enwiki and simplewiki local rollbacker. I'm relatively trusted to prevent abuse. Justarandomamerican (talk) 02:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I would weak oppose, as you aren't super trusted on wikimedia, and there isn't a need, though I would consider supporting if you held a higher trust role on wikimedia (i.e template editor, massmessage sender, new pages reviewer, edit filter helper, page mover, file mover, autopatrol), or a high trust global role, as I'd rather see some form of trustworthy role, as rollback isn't that highly sanctioned. Zippybonzo (talk) 07:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The supposedly higher trust roles you describe are for a need and competency in entirely different areas: I'm not experienced enough to be a template editor, have no need to be a mass message sender, NPR is a user group assisting in dealing with content, not conduct, etc. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense. I’d say wait. Given that my RfS just failed with multiple people expressing that they don’t think a 4th steward is needed at all. X (talk) 13:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, there appears to be, given the fact that there are only 3 Stewards and only 1 is fully active. I plan on waiting a bit anyways. Justarandomamerican (talk) 13:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, there are plenty of roles that aren't for an explicit need, they show you can be trusted, you have 2500 edits on wikimedia, which isn't very many, and I'd rather you had higher trust levels on other wikis. Zippybonzo (talk) 19:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

How is making 2500 edits not very many? Only 30% of registered Wikipedia users ever make one. Justarandomamerican (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I've got around 6000 which isn't very many, I'd expect more like 7500. Zippybonzo (talk) 15:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I was inviting you to explain why that isn't enough, as that's more than 99.5% of all registered contributors, and I am seeking the position for an individual need for tools to prevent abuse. Justarandomamerican (talk) 15:56, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

You don’t have a need for the tools, you have full access to the suite of admin tools which is enough to prevent abuse. I’m simply saying, that rollback isn’t that high trust, as they give it out to anyone who has a history of anti vandalism and meets the requirements, and 2500 edits is more than most users, but for a right giving access to look at IP addresses, I’d expect more trust on other wikis when the right isn’t entirely required. Zippybonzo (talk) 12:50, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I could say that nobody actually requires the tools. Dmehus doesn't actually have a need to look up IPs, but was given the toolkit anyways. Cross-wiki trust barely matters in a small community, or even a large one. Nobody judges a scowiki admin candidate on the basis that they only have rollback on enwiki. Nobody judges an enwiki admin for only having rollback and patroller on metamiraheze. Why is this required when I have a track record right here of making perfectly fine decisions? Simply put: if a candidate has a track record of making good decisions on the wiki they are requesting permissions, they are trusted, even if they have a bit lower trust elsewhere. Rollback on enwiki? Sure, it's a bit lower trust, but it does add to a case of a totality of the circumstances trustworthiness, which I say exists based on my track record here and elsewhere. Justarandomamerican (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

IMO a few of your decisions are far from good, which is why I’d want a right on another wiki that needs you to make good decisions. You still have no need for the right though, as there is 1 active steward, 1 semi-active steward, and a rarely active steward. Zippybonzo (talk) 02:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Please point me to a diff of a poor decision I made so that I can improve. A semi-active steward and one rarely active steward? That's why I'm requesting, there needs to be at least a duo of active stewards to handle any requests, as 1 person who is active isn't enough in any circumstance involving CU evidence, LTAs, and other forms of abuse that cannot be combated with the admin toolkit alone. People need other people to ask for review actively, not just a pair of semi-active stewards.Justarandomamerican (talk) 03:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

No, I also said an active steward as well, they are enough, the decision that was not great IMO was on FTW when you and X decided to take away IP privacy from abusive users, I’m not going to use it against you as I heavily doubt that you came up with the idea of it, but, there are a few conditions under which I’d support stewardship.

If any of the following conditions are met.

1. The wiki grows to the point where MacFan, Dmehus and Drummingman can’t prevent abuse.
2. You are more highly trusted on other wikis (not test ones or ones that just give out high trust permissions).
3. You show that you can perform actions similar to steward actions without significant opposition.

However IMO, 1 is so close to being met, that I’d probably support. Though I do consider this discussion to be pre discussion canvassing, you are a pretty highly qualified candidate, who inevitably I would have to support. Zippybonzo (talk) 06:37, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Relating to the privacy policy change, if you had a problem with the change, you should’ve said so in the waiting time before the policy took effect. I don’t consider this to be canvassing, given that they weren’t asking for support and it’s all public. I was looking on Wikipedia and it appears to be similar to wikipedia:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll. X (talk) 10:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I did air the concern but it was ignored. Zippybonzo (talk) 11:48, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I believe your concern was addressed by compromise: We replaced IP addresses with ranges, which are vague as to specific location, and cannot be used to identify 1 person in particular. I understand the concern about privacy, but some form of amendment was required to prevent disruption, and immediately after your feedback I realized that blocking IP addresses may not be the best way to go about preventing disruption from sockpuppetry, so now the PP allows for range blocks of CU-found IPs, not specific ones like was originally planned by X. I used rather vague wording whilst discussing the topic of preventing disruption from sockpuppetry, resulting in a privacy concern. My apologies. I certainly didn't mean for specific IPs to be blocked. Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Amend Test Wiki:No open proxies to include colocation providers

Colocation providers also hide IPs, like proxies and webhosts, so they should logically be included. Change: "No open proxies, web hosts, or VPNs..." to "No open proxies, web hosts, VPNs, or colocation providers..." Justarandomamerican (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done as this is pretty uncontroversial and doesn’t warrant further discussion. X (talk) 16:21, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Addition of interface admin protection level

I am proposing that interface administrator protection is added to help protect sensitive interface pages, i.e the sidebar and sitenotice pages, and also for protecting highly used templates. Zippybonzo (talk) 06:47, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose. X (talk) 11:13, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

  @X With what rationale? Zippybonzo (talk) 12:19, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Weak Oppose I don't see why bureaucrat/steward protection isn't enough, particularly for the sidebar.Justarandomamerican (talk) 14:43, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Weak oppose Per Justarandomamerican. AlPaD (talk) 08:14, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Block review of Piccadilly

I'd like to determine whether consensus believes that Piccadilly creating a blank talk page for a test page is worthy of a 3 month block from talk namespaces. In my opinion a block from talk namespaces is unneeded but instead a final warning, and a filter to warn upon creation of talk pages with a size under 256 bytes (a signature and a few words). For the record, this wiki is a test wiki, not the English Wikipedia, meaning people can test, and they aren't random talk pages, they are talk pages of test pages. Zippybonzo (talk) 11:16, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Or possibly limit the creation to exclude certain words (I.e hello, hi, guys), also, blocking at the request of a steward is mad, as the stewards can block for themselves, they are sysops too and I'd like to see their name in the block log if they authorised the block, as you don't see MacFan telling someone else to update the wiki. Zippybonzo (talk) 11:21, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose changing the block. We’ve given Piccadilly so many changes and so many warnings. Why must we give another? I think the partial block is a good alternative to a indef full block. And there’s nothing wrong with blocking on the request of a steward because maybe they can’t get to a laptop or they’re very busy. I’ve done it before and there’s nothing wrong with it. X (talk) 12:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

 Oppose changing the block as per X's comment. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 12:46, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

 Comment: -- The blockage was not entirely at my request, only the change from 1 year to three months was made by Justarandomamerican at my request. Drummingman (talk) 14:07, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Totally reasonable that they can somehow tell you to do it but not access their computer, I don’t think that’s a very good reason. Zippybonzo (talk) 02:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm neutral on the block, to be honest. I'm just glad it isn't an indefinite sitewide block. Piccadilly (My Contribs | Talk to me) 12:51, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

@Piccadilly May I ask why you tested on talk pages again after many warnings? X (talk) 13:02, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not really sure to be honest. I can say that I wasn't thinking about possible consequences of my actions, which I know isn't an excuse. I think I need to make more of an effort to slow down and think about doing things rather than just rush into them like I tend to do. Piccadilly (My Contribs | Talk to me) 13:54, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Alternate proposal: Prevent creation of talk pages but allow editing

I have an alternative proposal, to use an edit filter to prevent creation of talk pages for the remainder of the block, but allow editing. Any tampering with the filter will result in a desysop and 6 month block from all namespaces. Zippybonzo (talk) 12:29, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral. X (talk) 12:40, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 Support as the least restrictive method of preventing disruption at the moment. Justarandomamerican (talk) 12:43, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 Support Piccadilly (My Contribs | Talk to me) 12:52, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Neutral. Sav • ( Edits | Talk ) 15:31, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 Support AlPaD (talk) 08:16, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I believe this can be implemented now, and anyone may remove the block as soon as it is implemented. If they edit existing talk pages to test editing functions, the block may be reinstated by any Bureaucrat. Justarandomamerican (talk) 16:19, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Implementing... could take a while as I haven't used filters like this in a while. Zippybonzo (talk) 04:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Should be done, give me a bit of time to test it and I'll be back with a full result. Zippybonzo (talk) 04:10, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Zippybonzo (talk) 04:25, 18 July 2023 (UTC)